I installed one of those curved Z-28 windage trays and was about to follow up and install the 5 qt. oil pan on my 327 last night but came to find out that the oil pump pickup is the wrong one for this pan. This 5 qt. pan is from a '73 Corvette. I had been using a stock passenger setup before this to replace the original pan that was ruined when a rod let go. Does GM still make a replacement oil pump pickup tube and screen that will fit the 5 qt. oil pan .. ? .. Aftermarket, perhaps .. ? . .
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Re: oil pump pickup
I just bought a pickup tube for the stock 5 quart oil pan from ZIP. GM was the supplier. Not sure if it will fit your oil pump though. It is not designed to fit a high volume oil pump. -
Re: oil pump pickup
I just bought a pickup tube for the stock 5 quart oil pan from ZIP. GM was the supplier. Not sure if it will fit your oil pump though. It is not designed to fit a high volume oil pump.Comment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John-----
It's not clear to me which oil pan that you're using. However, if you're using the curved Z-28 windage tray, then I'm assuming that you're using the Z-28/L-82 oil pan. This oil pan is known as GM #3974251, GM #465221, or GM #360450. The first part number uses the 55-74 front oil pan seal radius and the latter 2 part numbers are identical pans which use the 75+ front oil pan seal radius.
The Z-28 pans described above which were also used on 75-79 Corvettes with L-82 have a side oil drain. They share this feature with the 75-79 L-48 pans. These 2 pans are the only Corvette pans that use a side oil drain. ALL others through 1996 use a REAR drain.
The oil pickup used for the 1975-79 style pans, including the Z-28/L-82 pan is GM #3855152 and it's still available from GM. The oil pickup used for all other 1963-82 Corvette small block oil pans is GM #3830080 which is also still available. These oil pick-up screens can be used with all GM oil pumps, standard, high pressure, or high volume, and they can also be used with most replacement aftermarket pumps such as Melling, Federal-Mogul, etc.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John-----
It's not clear to me which oil pan that you're using. However, if you're using the curved Z-28 windage tray, then I'm assuming that you're using the Z-28/L-82 oil pan. This oil pan is known as GM #3974251, GM #465221, or GM #360450. The first part number uses the 55-74 front oil pan seal radius and the latter 2 part numbers are identical pans which use the 75+ front oil pan seal radius.
The Z-28 pans described above which were also used on 75-79 Corvettes with L-82 have a side oil drain. They share this feature with the 75-79 L-48 pans. These 2 pans are the only Corvette pans that use a side oil drain. ALL others through 1996 use a REAR drain.
The oil pickup used for the 1975-79 style pans, including the Z-28/L-82 pan is GM #3855152 and it's still available from GM. The oil pickup used for all other 1963-82 Corvette small block oil pans is GM #3830080 which is also still available. These oil pick-up screens can be used with all GM oil pumps, standard, high pressure, or high volume, and they can also be used with most replacement aftermarket pumps such as Melling, Federal-Mogul, etc.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Don - thanks for the lead on ZIP carrying the oil pickup tube ..
Joe - The 5 qt. oil pan I have is a Corvette pan off a '73 with the rear oil drain plug. I bought the curved baffle recently from the dealer and it is the Z-28 part. That's what I meant to say. I'm using a stock type Melling oil pump - M55 instead of the HV pump.
Good to see that some of these parts for older engines are still available. Looks like the #3830080 pickup tube is the ticket. Thanks for providing the part numbers and your detailed reply.
JohnComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Don - thanks for the lead on ZIP carrying the oil pickup tube ..
Joe - The 5 qt. oil pan I have is a Corvette pan off a '73 with the rear oil drain plug. I bought the curved baffle recently from the dealer and it is the Z-28 part. That's what I meant to say. I'm using a stock type Melling oil pump - M55 instead of the HV pump.
Good to see that some of these parts for older engines are still available. Looks like the #3830080 pickup tube is the ticket. Thanks for providing the part numbers and your detailed reply.
JohnComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John------
I don't think that the Z-28/L-82 windage tray, GM #3927136, will work properly with the 73 Corvette oil pan (which, if original to the car, was GM #3820000). If you mount the tray on the engine, I think you'll find that the pan will then not seat properly on the block oil pan rails. The 3927136 tray is designed to work with the Z-28 and 75-79 L-82 oil pan. This pan has only minimal internal baffling and, thus, does not interfere with the baffle.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John------
I don't think that the Z-28/L-82 windage tray, GM #3927136, will work properly with the 73 Corvette oil pan (which, if original to the car, was GM #3820000). If you mount the tray on the engine, I think you'll find that the pan will then not seat properly on the block oil pan rails. The 3927136 tray is designed to work with the Z-28 and 75-79 L-82 oil pan. This pan has only minimal internal baffling and, thus, does not interfere with the baffle.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Joe-
To my eye the picture of the 5 qt. #360450 Z-28 pan shown in the GM Performance Parts catalog looked fairly identical in overall shape and sump baffling to the 5 qt. #3820000 Corvette oil pan, with the exception of drain plug location. Since the #3927136 windage tray baffle was listed for use with the Z-28 pan I figured it also would work with the Corvette 5 qt. pan. However, as you mention and as I came to find out there is a slight fitting issue. The extended style main cap mounting studs that are required for installation of the windage tray do make contact with the oil pan at the #2 main cap location. With the oil pan 'leveled' and set in place resting atop the #2 extended main cap studs the clearance appears to be about 1/8 inch above and around the periphery of the lower block mounting surface. This is without the oil pan gasket installed. I was able to install the four corner bolts on the pan and tighten them down so as to slightly 'mark' internally the exact location of stud interference at the #2 main cap. The fix seems relatively easy - either dimple the oil pan slightly for clearance at the #2 mounting stud locations; grind down the first couple of threads on the #2 mounting studs (tempted to go with that one); or perhaps a combination of the two. Other than that there are no other mounting issues. Side clearance between the oil pan and windage tray is about 7/16 inch longitudinally on either side.
I haven't tried it just yet for fit and function but the punched cutout hole in this windage tray that allows the dipstick to penetrate into the sump for checking the oil level appears a bit 'small'. I hope it isn't .. ! ..
JohnComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Joe-
To my eye the picture of the 5 qt. #360450 Z-28 pan shown in the GM Performance Parts catalog looked fairly identical in overall shape and sump baffling to the 5 qt. #3820000 Corvette oil pan, with the exception of drain plug location. Since the #3927136 windage tray baffle was listed for use with the Z-28 pan I figured it also would work with the Corvette 5 qt. pan. However, as you mention and as I came to find out there is a slight fitting issue. The extended style main cap mounting studs that are required for installation of the windage tray do make contact with the oil pan at the #2 main cap location. With the oil pan 'leveled' and set in place resting atop the #2 extended main cap studs the clearance appears to be about 1/8 inch above and around the periphery of the lower block mounting surface. This is without the oil pan gasket installed. I was able to install the four corner bolts on the pan and tighten them down so as to slightly 'mark' internally the exact location of stud interference at the #2 main cap. The fix seems relatively easy - either dimple the oil pan slightly for clearance at the #2 mounting stud locations; grind down the first couple of threads on the #2 mounting studs (tempted to go with that one); or perhaps a combination of the two. Other than that there are no other mounting issues. Side clearance between the oil pan and windage tray is about 7/16 inch longitudinally on either side.
I haven't tried it just yet for fit and function but the punched cutout hole in this windage tray that allows the dipstick to penetrate into the sump for checking the oil level appears a bit 'small'. I hope it isn't .. ! ..
JohnComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John-----
The Z-28 and 75-79 L-82 pan is actually quite different than the 63-74 Corvette "5 quart" pan, GM #3820000. For one thing, the 3820000 has significant welded-in, internal baffling; the Z-28 pan has very little internal baffling. Primarily, it has the 2 "rails" welded on the inner sides of the pan which articulate with the external baffle. Secondly, the Corvette pan has a longer and shallower sump; the Z-28 pan has a shorter and deeper sump.
Once-upon-a-time there was another baffle known as GM #3989075. This baffle was, reportedly, used on some or all 1970-74 Corvettes with LT-1 or L-82, except 70-72 ZR-1. This baffle is the one supposedly designed to work with the 3820000 oil pan. It was similar in configuration to the 3927136 baffle except that it was shorter in length. I've never been able to make even this baffle work properly with a 3820000 oil pan. To use it, I had to shorten it even further.
The 3989075 baffle is discontinued and, as far as I know, not reproduced. Although it was reportedly used for the applications I described above, I'm not completely sure that it actually was. I'd be interested in hearing what folks that have disassembled original Corvette LT-1s or 73-74 L-82s have found as far as an oil baffle is concerned.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
John-----
The Z-28 and 75-79 L-82 pan is actually quite different than the 63-74 Corvette "5 quart" pan, GM #3820000. For one thing, the 3820000 has significant welded-in, internal baffling; the Z-28 pan has very little internal baffling. Primarily, it has the 2 "rails" welded on the inner sides of the pan which articulate with the external baffle. Secondly, the Corvette pan has a longer and shallower sump; the Z-28 pan has a shorter and deeper sump.
Once-upon-a-time there was another baffle known as GM #3989075. This baffle was, reportedly, used on some or all 1970-74 Corvettes with LT-1 or L-82, except 70-72 ZR-1. This baffle is the one supposedly designed to work with the 3820000 oil pan. It was similar in configuration to the 3927136 baffle except that it was shorter in length. I've never been able to make even this baffle work properly with a 3820000 oil pan. To use it, I had to shorten it even further.
The 3989075 baffle is discontinued and, as far as I know, not reproduced. Although it was reportedly used for the applications I described above, I'm not completely sure that it actually was. I'd be interested in hearing what folks that have disassembled original Corvette LT-1s or 73-74 L-82s have found as far as an oil baffle is concerned.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Joe-
Very interesting .. I wasn't aware of the Z-28 pan having those spot welded in internal side rails. It would seem these rails interact with the attendant Z-28 pan baffle in order to 'seal off' the sides of the oil pan from the rotating assembly and lower sump area along the length of the pan baffle. Though there is a 7/16 inch gap on either side between the 3927136 baffle and 3820000 oil pan I'm wondering if this might cut down the effectiveness of using this pan/baffle combination. It wouldn't seem so .. ?.. It's not like I 'have' to use this baffle in my engine. I figured it would be a welcome addition when the music level goes up into the 6000+ rpm range. .
That's something about having to shorten the the old 3989075 baffle so that it could be made to work with the 3820000 oil pan. Did the 3989075 baffle extend all the way to the #1 main cap .. ? .. Was that the reason why it had to be shortened to make it work .. ? ..
As an aside question, if you might know - I haven't been able to find out if there is an oil galley plug that gets inserted up into the block from underneath the #5 main cap. This is a vertical oil passage that appears to extend to the top of the block. When the block was hot tanked all plugs were removed, of course, and now - with the exception of the obvious cam oil galley plugs - I'm trying to remember just where all those little guys go .. ! .. Also, there is some confusion about the 'right' main cap bolt torque for the 327 SB. I have seen it listed as 60-70 ft/lbs, 75 ft/lbs, and 80 ft/lbs from various 'sources'.. ? ... I'm thinking 75 ft/lbs is the number to use. Why do they do this .. ?! ..
JohnComment
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Re: oil pump pickup
Joe-
Very interesting .. I wasn't aware of the Z-28 pan having those spot welded in internal side rails. It would seem these rails interact with the attendant Z-28 pan baffle in order to 'seal off' the sides of the oil pan from the rotating assembly and lower sump area along the length of the pan baffle. Though there is a 7/16 inch gap on either side between the 3927136 baffle and 3820000 oil pan I'm wondering if this might cut down the effectiveness of using this pan/baffle combination. It wouldn't seem so .. ?.. It's not like I 'have' to use this baffle in my engine. I figured it would be a welcome addition when the music level goes up into the 6000+ rpm range. .
That's something about having to shorten the the old 3989075 baffle so that it could be made to work with the 3820000 oil pan. Did the 3989075 baffle extend all the way to the #1 main cap .. ? .. Was that the reason why it had to be shortened to make it work .. ? ..
As an aside question, if you might know - I haven't been able to find out if there is an oil galley plug that gets inserted up into the block from underneath the #5 main cap. This is a vertical oil passage that appears to extend to the top of the block. When the block was hot tanked all plugs were removed, of course, and now - with the exception of the obvious cam oil galley plugs - I'm trying to remember just where all those little guys go .. ! .. Also, there is some confusion about the 'right' main cap bolt torque for the 327 SB. I have seen it listed as 60-70 ft/lbs, 75 ft/lbs, and 80 ft/lbs from various 'sources'.. ? ... I'm thinking 75 ft/lbs is the number to use. Why do they do this .. ?! ..
JohnComment
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