The air does not work on my recently acquired 82 vette.The fan goes on but no cold air comes out (air comes out). I took it to my local garage and they said freon illegal and they have to convert it to new system. I am concerned about originality. The car is in Canada. Is freon still available in US. I asked if it was lack of freon or a shot compressor. they checked something that looked like a valve stem and air came out and they said they did not know. Any suggestions as to what I should do??
A/C question 1982 vette
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Yes, R-12 (that's the generic name for the refigerant; Freon is a trademark of DuPont) is still available in the US. We complied with obligations under UN treaty and stopped manufacturing it some time ago. What's available here (you need a refrigeration license in almost every instance) is either old stock or is reclaimed/reprocessed.
There are several certified 'drop-in' R-12 substitutes (e.g. Hotshot) that are a LOT less expensive than R-12 (current market is $40-60/lb and your system will take 3-4 lbs), but the Catch-22 is being able to get them. Most automotive shops practice under a limited refigeration license and they're only allowed (and tooled) to handle R-12 or R-134.
We've restored many a grand old lady Corvette who's A/C has been defunct for years, but we walk to the beat of a different drummer. One of our chapter members is professional HVAC journeyman who maintains commercial refigeration facilities and has a full license to buy and use refrigerants at will. This includes the so-called 'exotics' as well as those that are traditional (R-12/R-134).
He starts with a thorough diagnosis of the system (why did it fail?) and shot guns the normal Achille's Heel wear items. Replace all gaskets with current refrigeration (vs. automotive) grade gaskets and tighten fittings to torque specs. It's just as bad to overtighten as it is to undertighten a gasketed fitting interface! Pull and discard all original Schraeder valves and install commercial vs. automotive grade valves. The extra cost for using commercial vs. automotive grade refrigeration components is only a few dollars/vehicle....
If it's an early car with A-6 compressor, shot gun the front seal and replace with a Delco ceramic seal/bearing kit.
Flush the system to remove trapped impurities and, on earlier cars with sight glass based receiver/dryers, rebuild the original receiver/dryer in order to maintain factory concours authenticity. Now, evacuate the system and check its seal integrity. But, do NOT trust the evacuation test.... It's one thing to pull vacuum (gaskets suck inward) and another thing to apply pressure (gaskets bulge outward) and the system works under pressure aggrivated by temperature differentials.
So, once the car passes an evacuation test, fill it with an 'exotic' R-12 substitute (figure about $5/lb). Now, go drive and use the car for at least two weeks, better yet, run it all summer. Re-check the head pressures and compare to what they were when the car left. If there's no significant difference, dump the exotic refigerant and refill with conventional R-12. If there is a significant difference, use a commercial grade leak 'sniffer' and consider adding detection dye. Iterate until the system is tight as a bell.
Now, you could continue to operate with the 'exotic' refigerant but you give up the ability to have service at traditional auto centers (E.g, Firestone, Goodyear).... Plus, eventhough the drop-in R-12 substitutes do what they say, you have to adjust the system fill and this means you won't have EXACTLY the same amount of refigerant on board. So, things like the sight glass on your receiver/dryer aren't going to work the same as they did with R-12. Many of us are used to looking/checking and this is a handy on-board tool to have.
You might want to consider calling around for an HVAC journeyman in your neck of the woods. Typically, they don't want to talk to you once you mention you've got an automtive job (beneath their dignity and most presume you won't pay their refigeration 'expert' rate). But, if you can entice a fellow like this to work on your classic car project, it just might pay for itself several times over vs. taking the traditional route through auto repair shops!!!- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Yes, R-12 (that's the generic name for the refigerant; Freon is a trademark of DuPont) is still available in the US. We complied with obligations under UN treaty and stopped manufacturing it some time ago. What's available here (you need a refrigeration license in almost every instance) is either old stock or is reclaimed/reprocessed.
There are several certified 'drop-in' R-12 substitutes (e.g. Hotshot) that are a LOT less expensive than R-12 (current market is $40-60/lb and your system will take 3-4 lbs), but the Catch-22 is being able to get them. Most automotive shops practice under a limited refigeration license and they're only allowed (and tooled) to handle R-12 or R-134.
We've restored many a grand old lady Corvette who's A/C has been defunct for years, but we walk to the beat of a different drummer. One of our chapter members is professional HVAC journeyman who maintains commercial refigeration facilities and has a full license to buy and use refrigerants at will. This includes the so-called 'exotics' as well as those that are traditional (R-12/R-134).
He starts with a thorough diagnosis of the system (why did it fail?) and shot guns the normal Achille's Heel wear items. Replace all gaskets with current refrigeration (vs. automotive) grade gaskets and tighten fittings to torque specs. It's just as bad to overtighten as it is to undertighten a gasketed fitting interface! Pull and discard all original Schraeder valves and install commercial vs. automotive grade valves. The extra cost for using commercial vs. automotive grade refrigeration components is only a few dollars/vehicle....
If it's an early car with A-6 compressor, shot gun the front seal and replace with a Delco ceramic seal/bearing kit.
Flush the system to remove trapped impurities and, on earlier cars with sight glass based receiver/dryers, rebuild the original receiver/dryer in order to maintain factory concours authenticity. Now, evacuate the system and check its seal integrity. But, do NOT trust the evacuation test.... It's one thing to pull vacuum (gaskets suck inward) and another thing to apply pressure (gaskets bulge outward) and the system works under pressure aggrivated by temperature differentials.
So, once the car passes an evacuation test, fill it with an 'exotic' R-12 substitute (figure about $5/lb). Now, go drive and use the car for at least two weeks, better yet, run it all summer. Re-check the head pressures and compare to what they were when the car left. If there's no significant difference, dump the exotic refigerant and refill with conventional R-12. If there is a significant difference, use a commercial grade leak 'sniffer' and consider adding detection dye. Iterate until the system is tight as a bell.
Now, you could continue to operate with the 'exotic' refigerant but you give up the ability to have service at traditional auto centers (E.g, Firestone, Goodyear).... Plus, eventhough the drop-in R-12 substitutes do what they say, you have to adjust the system fill and this means you won't have EXACTLY the same amount of refigerant on board. So, things like the sight glass on your receiver/dryer aren't going to work the same as they did with R-12. Many of us are used to looking/checking and this is a handy on-board tool to have.
You might want to consider calling around for an HVAC journeyman in your neck of the woods. Typically, they don't want to talk to you once you mention you've got an automtive job (beneath their dignity and most presume you won't pay their refigeration 'expert' rate). But, if you can entice a fellow like this to work on your classic car project, it just might pay for itself several times over vs. taking the traditional route through auto repair shops!!!- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Don there is a web sight that has a lot of information on putting R134 into a car that originally had the R12 type. One thing I got from the information is that not a lot has to be changed to fill with the R134. One thing about R134 is that it is available just about anywhere automotive products are sold including Wal-Mart and K-Mart here in the USA. I read some time ago that a person found the price reasonable to have R12 installed at a GM dealership compared to what some shops would charge for the R12. Never checked this out. If I had your 82 I would give the R134 a try since it is so plentiful. No big deal if you have to add a can every year.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Don there is a web sight that has a lot of information on putting R134 into a car that originally had the R12 type. One thing I got from the information is that not a lot has to be changed to fill with the R134. One thing about R134 is that it is available just about anywhere automotive products are sold including Wal-Mart and K-Mart here in the USA. I read some time ago that a person found the price reasonable to have R12 installed at a GM dealership compared to what some shops would charge for the R12. Never checked this out. If I had your 82 I would give the R134 a try since it is so plentiful. No big deal if you have to add a can every year.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Jack and Jim
Is it a big deal to get them to put in R134 instead of R12. Is there some retrofitting to be done and if so are these changes noticeable. I guess when push comes to shove I would rather have the air working then keeping it original.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Jack and Jim
Is it a big deal to get them to put in R134 instead of R12. Is there some retrofitting to be done and if so are these changes noticeable. I guess when push comes to shove I would rather have the air working then keeping it original.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
do not put 134A into your car. rebulid your R12 system do not use a rebuilt comprassor go ahead an bite the builet an get a new AC-delco about 400 us. if you need a comprassor, dont even waste your time on a rebuilt. then run with R12 you will not be happy with 134A as a drop in replacment.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
do not put 134A into your car. rebulid your R12 system do not use a rebuilt comprassor go ahead an bite the builet an get a new AC-delco about 400 us. if you need a comprassor, dont even waste your time on a rebuilt. then run with R12 you will not be happy with 134A as a drop in replacment.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Don it is no big deal where I live to have R134 installed/retrofitted. The company owned Goodyear Servcie store does it often. If you throughly read what is available at www.id-usa.com concerning retrofitting your original R12 equipped Corvette this should help in your decision and it should show you what is required. I have two cars that use R12 and two that came originally with the R134. I have not experienced the performance of a R12 system converted to R134, however my R12 original systems in top working order do seem to chill the air better than R134.- Top
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Re: A/C question 1982 vette
Don it is no big deal where I live to have R134 installed/retrofitted. The company owned Goodyear Servcie store does it often. If you throughly read what is available at www.id-usa.com concerning retrofitting your original R12 equipped Corvette this should help in your decision and it should show you what is required. I have two cars that use R12 and two that came originally with the R134. I have not experienced the performance of a R12 system converted to R134, however my R12 original systems in top working order do seem to chill the air better than R134.- Top
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