De-carboning engine

[Duke W.]

Re: Duke "again wha?"water injection "help me out"

Your question is not clear to me, but here is the way water alcohol injection works.

When an engine is boosted by a supercharger or turbocharger both the pressure and temperature of the inlet air increase. Higher temperature both reduces inlet air density (which reduces power output) and increases the tendency to detonate. Water and even more so, alcohol, have high latent heat of vaporization, so as they vaporize in the inlet system inlet temperature is reduced and air density is increased.

Prior to water/alcohol injection take-off power was usually accompanied by lots of extra fuel - 50 percent or more than the stoichiometric requirement, but there was a limit to how much inlet charge cooling this could provide and the next step was water/alcohol injection. This reduced the amount of extra fuel required as the alcohol both provided extra combustion energy and significant charge cooling. It would also resist freezing down to about zero F, which is an important attribute when used as a war emergency power generator on fighter aircraft that operate at high altitude. This was the case in WW II. The bombers usually operated at about 30,0000 feet with the fighters several thousand feet higher. This way they could dive into approaching German fighter formations as the Germans climbed to gain altitude position to attack the Allied bomber formations.

Altitude is always an advantage in air warfare and the Allied fighter escort proved so effective at breaking up or chasing off German fighters that bomber looses dropped dramatically, and the German flack was more effective that their fighters.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: In Those Days...

the reason for no sludge in the engine today is that they run at 200+degrees that boils the moisture out of the engine oil. getting back to the top ring groove wear,i was later told by a GM engineer that was a problem with the olds engine that used alcohol/water injection. boat engines are most all the time under full power so these engines went thru a lot of water/alcohol solution. this boat a 32' scarab,had 2 482 CI BBC with 2X4 carbs and 6-71 blowers making 750+ HP each and would in excess of 100 MPH.

[Dick W.]

Re: In Those Days...

Chuck, I used to run Texaco Ursa (Fleet version of Havoline, met a higher mil spec 2104 B or C in that era) in everything I owned, starting about '61 or '62. My engines were always clean on the inside. I ran a brand "C" over 250,000 miles and never had the heads or pan off. Changed intake ( took the plumbers nightmare long ram off) at about 225,000 miles and tappet chamber was very clean.

On the other hand, you could put this oil or Havoline in an engine that had Quaker State, Pennzoil, Esso, etc that had never used oil and instantly turn it into a major oil burner. The oil would dislodge the sludge and plug many passages.

Times sure have changed.

[Dick W.]

Re: Maybe I got off clean

Probably. I go back far enough that I remember that the large hd gasoline truck engines had Donaldson Valves (we later know these as PCV valves) I really think that they were originally installed because these engines had tremendous blow-by and you could not stand it in the cab at low speeds(which they usually ran), not as an emissions thing

[Duke W.]

Re: In Those Days...

I remember from my days working in a gas station beginning in the early sixties seeing some very sludged up engines that were not more than maybe six years old. It's also noteworthy that one of the biggest aircraft engine maintenance problems during WWII was engine sludge buildup.

The early to mid sixties marked the improvement of motor oils with better detergent and dispersant additives. This along with PCV and regular oil changes yielded a marked reduction in engine sludge formation. I recall back in those days that I changed the oil every four months, which was usually about 4000 miles and the filter every other oil change. This could actually be considered insufficient maintenance since GM's recommended schedule was every TWO months or 6000 miles and the filter every six months or 6000 miles. I actually bought 10W-30 oil on price as long as it met the latest API specification, which was SB or SC back then. Now it's SL, but I use HD diesel engine oil in the pre-emission cars, which has a vastly superior additive package to anything available back in the sixties. Shame on me for inadequate maintenance, but the engine never developed any sludge!

Nowadays since my cars accumulate so little mileage I change the oil and filter once a year, which is a little less than 1000 to about 3000 max, and the insides are all squeaky clean.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

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