You will recall my AC didn't blow cold and we got into discussions on this board about R12 etc. Well I found a buddy who had some R12. we topped it up and turned it on and the compressor failed and started making a large racket.Took it to an AC guy who I do not know. He purged the R12 and told me I needed a whole new system. The compressor shredded itself and the whole system was full of iron filings. he said I needed a new compressor, condensor and evaporator. Can this system not be cleansed of iron filings or can a compressor be repaired? Should I leave it as is and just get originality points when being judged or scrap the AC or ??? . What are my other options and where does one get parts for a 1982 AC system.
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
Don - system contamination is not a good thing, and for sure your compressor needs replacement. If I recall, in 82 GM was using the radial aluminum bodied compressor, not the axial Frigidaire units used previously, which were steel cylinders. I am gussing you have a system full of aluminum particles. Now, there will be a filter that will be plugged and will contain a bunch of the debris, usually around the drier. I would also completely flush multiple times the evap, condensor, and hoses with a flush kit, and completely replace the VIR if they used those still in 82 or disassemble and clean if possible. I think many of these were not serviceable and need to be replaced. I think with time and attention you can clean the debris from the system, but personally I have not had experience doing this, maybe others will refute the idea.....Craig -
Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
Don------
What likely happened here is that you over-filled the system with R-12. That will lead to IMMEDIATE failure of the compressor. You can't just "top off" a refrigeration system with refrigerant. At least, you can't without risking just the sort of problem you've encountered. It can be a VERY expensive mistake.
Fortunately, the parts you need are still available. They are as follows:
compressor (new)----GM #1134354---GM list $405.37
condensor-----------GM #12490542---GM list $268.74
evaporator core------GM #3042578----GM list $322.48
A remanuafctured compressor is available through the Delco parts system under GM #12305743 or Delco #15-2232 for a lower price than a new unit. Obviously, I would still prefer the new unit. Also, the above-referenced condensor and evaporator are also available through the Delco parts system under Delco #15-6100 and Delco #15-6337 for a, perhaps, for a lesser cost than through the GM parts system. Any way you cut it, though, this will be an expensive batch of parts. Like I say, some mistakes can be expensiveIn Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
Joe-- I suspected as much. Can the system be purged of metal filings. and are the three items all required and do you think that this will be the end of it. It still needs coolant, hoses and installation. I am also back into the lack of R12 problem. What is your best guess on the cost of getting a GM garage to install the required parts, coolant, hoses etc.
do you thnk that 2K will cover it.Comment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
Don-----
It's possible that it could be purged of metal contamination. However, it would be a pretty big gamble. If you don't get it right, you're back to "square one" and you might ruin whatever new parts you installed. I'd probably go ahead and replace everything.
I think that about $2,000 might be about right for a GM dealer to do the work. Through GM dealer service department work, you're going to pay full GM list (and, maybe more) for the parts. Plus, a shop rate of $85 to 110/hour.
You might also purchase the parts through an AC/Delco parts system dealer for a lot less. Then, take the car to a reliable and competent A/C repair shop with the parts. Have them do the installation and recharge. Check with them first, though, that they'll do the job with your parts.
R-12 is getting expensive, but it's still around. You only need about 3 lb for a complete system fill. I think that the going price is somewhere in the $50-100 per lb range.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
Don, your A/C guy sounds like he's padding the tab...there's no reason to replace the condensor and evaporator just because there are possibly filings inside. I would check other shops and see what they say about flushing the system. Anyway, I think there is a strainer at the VIR? valve to catch filings, so your evaporator and downstream should be fairly clean.
If it were me, I would flush and reuse the components if I had to take the system completely apart myself and flush it piece by piece. You would need to have an A/C shop de-pressure the system and recover the freon. I suppose the later systems like yours have a dryer...you will need a dryer in addition to a compressor. The VIR? valve may also need to be replaced, but you may be able to get by with just replacing the strainer. Put the system back together with new o-rings, and take it back to the A/C shop for evacuation and charging.
Do you have any familiarity with tools? Get the 82 Chassis Service Manual and check it out...you may be able to reduce this tab by several hundred dollars.Comment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
There used to be in-line filters available (about 3 inches in diameter, and in inch or so thick) for the suction side of the A6 compressors for these kinds of situations. One still needs to flush the system, and replace the dryer (or descant if a VIR system).
The AC shop wants to replace all the components because A) You are paying for them, and B) R&R will get all the pieces of debris out of that part...so it is a CYA for the shop. If they roll the dice and the new compressor fails due to debris in the system, you and the job come back to them. If they R&R everything you have a new system and no debris.TerryComment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
The '82 has the cycling clutch, orfice tube (CCOT)system. At the least you need to replace the drier and the orfice tube after flushing the system. The condenser seems to be the catch all for all the trash. A 22 year old system probably has quite a bit of misc. trash collected befor the compressor failure. I would seriously consider replacing the condenser. Usually a noticeable difference in cooling.
Also when you are replacing major components like these, it would be a good time to convert to R-134. Purchase a change over kit and a variable orfice tube. Correctly done, you should get as good or even better cooling than R-12 at considerably less money.Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: 82 vette--is my AC guy for real
The prices Joe Lucia quoted you for the compressor, condensor, and evaporator are GM list. You should be able to find a dealer (through your local NCRS chapter) who'll give you at least 20% off those prices. I thought those prices were cheap. Have you priced these components on civilian cars lately?
It's probable that the iron filings were caught by the filter, the valve, and the drier. It's also probable that flushing will get all the crud out of your system. But I wouldn't chance it. These components you're deliberating over whether to replace are 23 years old. They need replacing anyway. You can still get OEM parts??? At reasonable prices??? What's the hard decision? Put in new hoses and "O"-rings too.Comment
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Had the same problem....
I bought the first year Mercedes Turbo Diesel (1978) when I lived in Houston. It used a Frigidaire A-6 compressor. It's hot in Texas and the A/C in the car ran all the time. At about 80K miles the A-6 went south internally and blew aluminum shards all through the system....
My Benz dealer told me the ONLY way to be 100% certain of getting all the residual 'scrap' out of the system was to shotgun EVERTHING (that's what tech manuals called for).... But, he pointed me to a Houston local A/C shop that'd been in business 'forever' and told me that was my best shot at a reasonably priced repair job. I went that way.
They removed the 'dead' compressor and scrapped the receiver/dryer. Then, they injected a special silicone based (beefy viscosity and essentially innert) and used compressed air to blow the system out using cloth filters to catch/inspect the effluent. The 'blow job' took about 1-1/2 days until they were satisfied they'd gotten all of the residual metal shavings out....
They installed an A/C rebuilt compressor and a new receiver/dryer and recharged the system. I drove the car without incident for another 105K miles before selling it.
Bottom line: the job CAN be done without shotgun replacement of all the refrigerant side parts. BUT, you've got to do some comparision shopping for a competent automotive A/C shop that's willing to tackle the job in your neck of the woods!Comment
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Re: Had the same problem....
Thanks guys for your input. I like to think that it was the 23 yr old part that gave out and was not a result of my topping up the r12, We could see the failure on the guages we were using. I probably will replace the whole system as most suggested just to not compound the problem. However there is still a prolem of 2K++ coast (that is 3k++ in my canadian money) probably will convert to r134 i guess at the same time. Or i may just not have air any more. 3k is a lot of money for unneeded (in Canada)air. Once again thanks.Comment
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Re: Had the same problem....
I feel your pain. I just had the same experience with the orange suburban. The bad news there is 5+ lbs of R12 due to dual AC units. Cleaning that will be no fun at all.TerryComment
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