pulling engine, remove radiator support?

[dick foehringer]

on my 69 with 427/400 and A/C should i pull the radiator support also? im taking out the radiator and the condenser but lookong at those 3 bolts on each side it could be a real problem to get out the top passenger side bolt. it appears to be behind a fiberglass shield that the a/c hoses run by. i can see all the others? what/how should i do?
thanks, dick

[Chuck S.]

Re: pulling engine, remove radiator support?

Dick, it's nearly impossible to remove the top passenger side bolt with the AC hoses removed; with the hoses in place, I can confidently say it IS impossible. If you have a large fiberglass fan shroud, it will have to be removed, but the radiator support can probably stay in place. Remove the shroud first if you plan to remove the radiator...it'll make the radiator a lot easier to pull out.

There was a recent thread on removing the large fiberglass shrouds by unbolting the upper control arm shaft, and moving the control arm to provide clearance. The "studs" that mount the upper control arm are actually bolts, and these will have to be tapped out of the frame. If no one adds additional detail, do a search of the archives.

[Dick W.]

Re: pulling engine, remove radiator support?

It is possible to remove the bolt. To remove the shroud you will either have to loosen the radiator support and tilt forward, or remove the RH upper control arm. Personally, I had rather do the core support.

[Chuck S.]

Can't Be Done!...I'll Bet You $20!

Dickie, on an air-conditioned car, that top right hand screw can only be removed with the AC hoses out of the way, using a specially modified closed-end wrench cut in half, and utilizing more patience than Job.

An open-end wrench won't work...it's too big; and the standard closed end wrench can't be placed on/off the screw head inside that narrow hose channel. The closed-end loop has to be cut off leaving just barely half the loop, and the wrench can be no longer than about 2.5"-3" to allow a slight turning movement (about 15-20 degrees; it takes a LONG time). I know because I sacrificed a perfectly good Crafstman 1/2" open/closed end wrench just to accomplish this task. Putting the bolt BACK IN still remains problematical.

Of course, you could grip the pointed end and back the screw out, in which case, I suspect the head will interfere with the hoses making it impossible to remove the screw. The other option is to remove that fiberglass hose shield, but I figured that would destroy the shield and maybe damage the inner fender as well.

I'll collect the $20 (or learn the trick) sometime when I meetcha'!

[Jack H.]

Re: pulling engine, remove radiator support?

I don't know how in (*&& this happened by I can tell you it did!

On the way to the Iowa Regional a few years ago, my '71 SB A/C convertible blew a radiator in the middle of Nowhere, Nebraska. The truck stop the tow truck took me to had four LARGE service bays for working on 18-wheelers. The owner of the service center came out, looked at my '71 on the flat bed and asked it this was one of those 'concoursey Corvettes'....

I admitted it had been Flight judged and some might call it that. I asked if he knew a good place to have a radiator R&R job done. He jumped down off the flat bed, spit a wad on the pavement and motioned for me to follow him to the end service bay that was closed/locked.

When the door opened, my heart stopped. Inside were probably seven classic Chevy's including a few Nomads and serveral V8 FI cars from the late 50's. He said he'd be GLAD to R&R my radiator, but he didn't trust anyone in Nebraska to repair it. No problem, I'd rent a car and take the rad with me to Iowa. Surely the local folks in Des Moines would have a trustworthy source (guess what, one Des Moines local sponsoring the regional did just that--concours radiator repair).

I checked into the Holiday Inn next door and phoned around to get a rental car. Then, an hour and a half later, I went back to truck stop to help the guys with the radiator R&R. My mouth fell again as I saw my car in the center of the service bay surrounded by a viewing rope barrier. The hood was off, there were a handful of buckets on the floor with bolts/fasteners sorted and labeled, the rad shroud off, and the radiator out sitting, waiting.

The owner came over and said the rad was shore nuf shot...the inlet tank has a split about 3-inches long. Struggling for words, I asked who in (*&& took the radiator out (it'd only been 1.5 hours). He shuffled his feet and admited he and his top mechanic removed it.

I asked how he managed to get it out without removing the core support or any of the A/C plumbing. He said it was 'kinda hard' but with the two of them working together, they just sniggled and wiggled until they found the 'right' orientation and she popped out like a new born baby!

BTW, I had the radiator repaired and air freighted back to them and she was all re-assembled ready to go when I returned 3-days later. So, I don't know what 'magic' lives in central Nebraska, but I can testify there ARE magicians who can R&R the radiator in a Shark air car without loosening the core support, pulling the A/C plumbing or attaching the suspension!

[Wayne K.]

Great story Jack. Did you notice any....

trace of vaseline on the old radiator.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Great story Jack...

Not so hard to believe they could get the radiator out...if they weren't concerned about beating the 'ell out of it. But, removing the shroud without damage...even with the radiator out...Now, that's harder to believe.

Good thing Jack Top-Flighted before this incident...He might have gotten deducts for all those scars on that shroud. (Didn't get down on your hands and knees to check their finished work, Jack?)

[Jim T.]

Re: pulling engine, remove radiator support?

Dick my 70 with air has the same shield in the fenderwell covering the radiator support bolt. I have always just lifted the passenger front wheel with a floor jack positioned under the lower control arm and removed the tire for better accessability of handling the upper control arm and installing the upper control arm bolts. Unbolting the upper control arm, knocking the rear upper control arm bolt lose, it has serrated edges to retain it, then moving the control arm back into the fenderwell. The front upper control arm bolt can be a little difficult to knock out, so I usually leave it in place untill the radiator and shroud is removed and them remove it to make it a little easier to install the upper control arm. Once the control are is out of the way the shroud comes out, them I remove the radiator. I can do the lifting of the radiator myself, but you may want some help.

[Mike Cobine]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

I've had the 427 in my '68 in and out several times. Each time I pulled the shroud loose, back to the engine as much as possible, pulled the radiator, the fan, and then the shroud.

Then I pulled the engine.

Yes, it is an AC car.

No, I did not remove or move the core support.

Yes, I took the hood off.

The bellhousing was left on the engine.

Exhaust manifolds were on the engine (How do you get the bolts on the passenger side rear out anyway?)

One secret to removing the radiator: Take a large piece of cardboard, lay between the radiator and the engine stuff. Slide the radiator up it.

Unless there is a world of difference in a '68 and the rest, I don't see why all the fuss. Not a real easy job, but can be done as quick as most other Corvettes.

[Dick W.]

Re: I don't know what all the fuss is about.

'68 was a one year only. The core support was unique, radiator unique, and depending on the engine combination, the shroud could be unique. Add AC to that and things could get interesting removing the core support.

I have removed the core support on two '72 454's w/AC. It ain't easy, but I prefer to do it that way rather than remove the upper control arm. I guess it is all in what yer git used to. Me and Bubba do it the easy (hard?) way.

[Chuck S.]

Re: I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Mike, removal or moving of the core support is the only thing that is affected by AC. If you don't move the core support...don't make no difference.

Admittedly, my experience is on a 70 small block, so the shrouds are probably different designs (We are talking about large fiberglass shrouds here I presume?).

In my experience, I could not use that cardboard idea...there wasn't enough room between the shroud and the radiator to get ANYTHING in there, and if you could, it would only cause you more trouble. I think I tried the cardboard idea, but for the purpose of protecting the tubes and fins while trying to wrestle that BFR out of that crack it was wedged in. After a little frustration, I pitched the cardboard.

All I know is...even with the radiator finally out, that freaking big-A shroud in my car STILL couldn't be easily removed. That was the plan...sorely disappointed me to discover it wasn't going to just lift right out (@$#%^& control arm). It came out...eventually. Wish I had known about this upper control arm trick then...not in the service manual.

[Wayne K.]

Just be glad they're not Triumph TR2's...

The whole front of the car has to come off to get the radiator out and don't ask me how I know.

[Jack H.]

Re: Great story Jack...

They DID cheat by pulling the fan, fan clutch and water pump.... But, you can look at 'Lil Red and there's narry a scratch on the shroud or the rad AND they replaced all the radiator foam dams properly!!!!!

When I picked up the car, I gave 'em and extra $50, told the shop owner to take his ace mechanic out for a good steak dinner. He tried to fight me....

I then told him I was silent partner in a Denver Corvette shop and explained what the Chevy rate book said about how you supposed to do the job. As I walked out the door smiling and waiving, his was STILL trying to pick his lower jaw off his shoes!!!!!!!!!

[Dick W.]

Re: Just be glad they're not Triumph TR2's...

Ya mean that the Brits have another way to get even with the owners, besides oil leaks, and Lucas electrics??

[Chuck S.]

I Have Wondered...

How did they install those big shrouds on the assembly line? There must be a trick. Building the car around the shroud is not a sensible answer, and I know they weren't monkeying with the upper control arm once the had it cinched up. I'm wondering if they didn't place the shroud in position on the rolling chassis before the body drop. ??!!