Let's start a Vega thread!

[Duke W.]

Just kidding!

Duke

[Duke W.]

Corvette-Vega connections

Ah, what the heck! Let's have a quiz!

Question 1: What do the ZL-1 and Cosworth Vega have in common? (Hint: the obvious answer is "all-aluminum construction", but that's not the answer I am looking for. It is the name of an individual)

Question 2: What did Zora Arkus-Duntov say about the Cosworth Vega after driving it at a management review prior to its release.

Question 3: What does the Cosworth Vega have in common with the Rochester FI system (Hint: the obvious answer is "fuel injection", but that's not what I'm after. It has to do with manufacturing.)

Answers to be provided if no one gets them right.

I bet John Hinckley could come up with some other historical connections!

Duke

[Duke W.]

200 hits and no answers!? Here they are!

Q1 Answer: "Jim Musser". Jim was the project manager for the ZL-1/Can-Am aluminum block program. In 1970 he was tasked by John DeLorean to contact Cosworth and gage their interest in the upcoming Vega aluminum block as a basis for a racing engine. Being as how the F2 displacement was due to increase from 1600 to 2000 cc in '72, Cosworth was looking for a new production based block (a F2 rule) as the Ford Cortina block was too small for expansion without an excessively long stroke.

Though Musser made the initial contact, the late Cal Wade became the project engineer and worked with Cosworth during the development process in England.

Musser currently owns a Michigan-based company that sells three wheel "Sportcycle" plans and kits.

Q2 Answer: Zora said something on the order of: That's the nicest four-cylinder I've ever driven.

Q3 Answer" "Winters Foundry". Contrary to myth, the Cosworth Vega engine was not "built in England". As part of the development contract, Chevrolet licensed rights to the design and name "Cosworth" being as how DeLorean's objective was to build a limited production high performance "image maker" for the Vega line.
Keeping the basic layout and architectural dimensions, Cal Wade completely re-engineered the production engine with all new drawings. For example, concerned that dealer mechanics would strip threads, all 1/4-20 bolts from the original Cosworth design were replaced with 5/16-18.

The Winters Foundry cast the cylinder head, cam carrier, cam cover, and distributor drive housing just as they were GM's supplier for aluminum manifolds and Rocherster FI castings. All the above CV castings have the "Winters snowflake", but they are on inside surfaces and not visible on the assembled engine. Like the forged aluminum pistons for SHP V-8s, TRW also supplied the forged aluminum pistons for the Cosworth Vega engine.

Duke

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Corvette-Vega connections

I'll bite. I usually get this stuff wrong.


Question 1: What do the ZL-1 and Cosworth Vega have in common? (Hint: the obvious answer is "all-aluminum construction", but that's not the answer I am looking for. It is the name of an individual)

Jim Musser, CV engine development and Can Am racing development.

If not, then maybe Bill Howell, CV development and Camaro racing program.

Lloyd Reuss, part of the special vehicle operations at the time.


Question 2: What did Zora Arkus-Duntov say about the Cosworth Vega after driving it at a management review prior to its release.

"Hey, what happened to the other four cylinders?"

"Corvette has nothing to fear."

"185 hp? Feels like only 110."

Heck if I know.


Question 3: What does the Cosworth Vega have in common with the Rochester FI system (Hint: the obvious answer is "fuel injection", but that's not what I'm after. It has to do with manufacturing.)


Sand cast aluminum plenum
Side draft inlet configuration
Made in Rochester

Well, they may all be wrong, but I can't stand watching no one jump on this.

I thought the big question was "What two things do the ZL-1 and Cosworth Vega have in common?"

1. Both nearly doubled the price from the base car.
2. Both were produced in much lower numbers than anticipated.

[Duke W.]

Re: Corvette-Vega connections

Very good, Mike! This is pretty esoteric stuff so even getting one answer correct is pretty good.

You brought up another interesting Cosworth Vega - Corvette connection, but I would consider the ZR-1, not the ZL-1 to be the interesting comparison.

Both the CV and ZR-1 cost about double the base model. Both sold very well when first introduced, but both saw sales drop off rapidly after the first few months and both were sold at deep discounts after they were discontiued. Also, neither has become the "big buck classic" that many predicted. The ZL-1 was an engine option, not a separate model, and with only two sold its primarily a historical footnote.

Current Web banter has some believing that the upcoming C6 Z06 will cost as much as $80K. I seriously doubt this, as all one has to do is look at the CV and ZR-1 to see that such a dramatic increase in price is not likely to lead to success, no matter what? Corporations tend to have short memories, but I don't think Dave Hill and his Corvette group are dumb enough to make the same mistake a THIRD time!

Duke

[Mike Cobine]

I just hate delays

It figures by the time I post an answer, Duke would post the answers first.

[Duke W.]

Bill Howell

Bill is also initimately connected to the CV engine, but I belive his involvement came later during production engine development and also racing engine development by McLaren Engines using a heavy duty block that Chevrolet finally developed circa 1973. The early prototype Vega blocks used by Cosworth experienced numerous failures. In correspondence with Mike Hall, Chief Engineer for Cosworth at the time and responsible for developing the engine, he reported that one block broke in half at the base of the water jacket and the only thing that keep the two pieces from flying apart was the timing belt!

The CV racing engine developed by McLaren Engines went on to a successful career as a USAC Midget engine with the last retired about 1991, when the supply of HD blocks dried up, but I know of a few serviceable, used, and even new that a couple of guys have squirreled away.

Duke

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Corvette-Vega connections

Actually, the ZL-1 doubled, being $4718 versus the coupe base of $4781 and conv base of $4438. The ZR-1 was a steal, being a $968 option.

The reason the ZR-1 and ZR-2 were made were to supply the SCCA-legal packages to the racers, however, but the time they came out, SCCA rules had loosened enough racers could create the same car without buying the package.

[Mike Cobine]

The really sad part

is that had the Vega aluminum engine program not run into the negative publicity of blowing up and burning oil, Corvette may have well have had an aluminum engine much earlier. The large use of aluminum in the '80 indicates there was thoughts of using it to lighten the car, and the engine is by far the heaviest single piece.

The available aluminum small block was apparently not financially feasible on a production run, since they were around and were never even used as an option (think how that would have helped the SCCA and IMSA racers). But the Vega aluminum engine was not only financially feasible, it was reality and apparently economical or they would have used a plain Jane iron four banger. To go to a V8 version would have been nice to see in the '78.

[GL Anderson]

Re: 200 hits and no answers!? Here they are!

Just one more bit of obscure history, the Cosvega that was to be introduced in 1973 before problems set in was to be painted Silver. I still have a pint of the original color laquer. GL

[Duke W.]

Re: Corvette-Vega connections

I was referring to the 1990-93 ZR-1.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: The really sad part

The year after the Vega engine ceased production, Porsche brought their linerless aluminum V-8 block to production in the 928 based on the technology they licensed from GM/Reynolds. Mercedes Benz followed suit in the early eighties and BMW eventually followed.

Nowadays, linerless aluminum block technology is fairly common, but GM has never since built such a block except for the 7L C5R engine. I don't know, maybe they are still gun shy over the whole Vega engine controversy, but the technology is now well proven.

Duke

[`Michael Southard]

Re: Let's start a Vega thread!

ONLY if we get to do a "K" car thread next!!!

[John H.]

Re: 200 hits and no answers!? Here they are!

The first batch of Pilot cars we built at Ste. Therese in 1973 (just before the 50,000-mile emission durability car burned an exhaust valve at 46,000 miles) were all silver; while the later version was re-running the same test in 1974, the decision was made to launch them in black. I was in charge of that launch too, which I chronicled in the CVOA magazine two years ago; "first-fire" of the #1 production engine in the off-line "Cosworth Crib" at the end of the Final Line, with the press, TV cameras, etc. was a hoot - shoulda seen them jump from the blast, sheet of flame, and the flying air cleaner

[Clem Z.]

duke,question

if i remember correctly the oil drain back holes in the head were on the crank widage updraft side of the engine and the oil had problems returning to the pan because of this,is that correct or was this the std vega engine???