C-2 L-76 Dilema!

[`Michael Southard]

Well, I've learned that I can now get a "correctly" dated, stamped, (and whatever), 340 solid lifter long block engine for my late 63 SWC. Its obviously not "original", but the numbers would be correct(?). (I'm sure you gentlemen know where it would come from).

This little jewel will run about $5k, but I still have to find the intake and carb. My big question is...Is it worth it? Will you guys looking for #'s match car give mine a second look?

Also, I want a drive-able car. I'm trying to get rid of a 13.5:1 Comp Ratio because it knocks and there aint fuel good enough to run it. I'm not altogether sure that a 11.25:1 Comp ratio in the L-76 it gonna be any better either.

What say you?

[George C.]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema!

Michael,
Sounds to me like you are asking for opinions, so here is mine. You can fool some or most of the people with the block you are talking about. I think having the correct motor is of value to you and at resale, provided you call it a correct replacement motor. You are the only person who can decide if it is worth the price.

As far as drivability, I have a 1965 365 HP, with from everything I can tell the original motor, and it drives very well on the 93 octane unleaded that is available everywhere. When I buy my next mid-year, I will probably go for the 350 HP, just because it has significantly better low end torque and even better drivability. Good luck with your project.

Thank you,

George

#36809

[`Michael Southard]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema!

Your opinion is graciously accepted. I would most certainly identify the entire engine as a correct "replacement". Any thing other than that thought has never occured to me.

I was looking for an opinion on the engines drive-ability, and wether it is actually worth any more with a replacement engine. And you have provided that. Then of course I would have to decide on the $5K+.

Thank you for your input George.

[Kenneth G.]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema!

George, what compression ratio do you have in your 65 365hp??

[G B.]

I say forget it

I don't think a re-stamped engine block adds one cent to the true value of a car.

Sooner or later every single re-stamped block will be used to deceive someone, somewhere, somehow. I say you should wash your hands and feet of that whole fake stamp crowd. Why on earth would you contaminate your car with their work? It will only make others wonder what else has been falsified.

[Joe R.]

Re: Restoration vs. Replacement

Jerry,

Every day someone replaces a body panel, a front end, suspension parts, transmissions, rear ends, paints the body or replaces the interior. This is called restoration in many shops and probably is called restoration in your shop.

Why would the replacement of the correct engine be anything else?

What is wrong with a person wanting their restored Corvette to look correct?

Remember the most sincere for of flattery?

Just food for thought and certainly not a criticism of any restoration shop.

Regards,

JR

[Jim T.]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema!

If you are not going to enter your car in NCRS judging events, for the money you are going to spend for an old engine that the rods may come through the oil pan reference previous posts, you could buy a brand new GM 350 crate engine and enjoy thousands of miles of driving pleasure. The 350/330 hp GM crate engine would provide lots of torque from the stop sign. This current GM crate engine picked up 30 HP with the addition of the heads now supplied on this crate engine. It is available with or without carb and other parts. If aluminum heads and roller cam are disired the ZZ4 crate engine is a popular replacement engine. I have one of the earlier versions of this one, a ZZ1 and like driving my 70 with this engine, only wish my 70 was a four speed so I could go through the gears. These engines come with a GM warranty, mine still does not leak oil after 12 years. I use 93 octane with no problems in the ZZ1, the 350/330 may perform with less since the compression is a little less. If I sell my 70 I will install the 350/300 that I removed and keep my ZZ1.

[Mike Cobine]

The Problem is

not whether stamping is right, wrong, or whatever. The problem is that people assign value to the original engine, and base that on having the correct stamping in front.

And that value is extremely out of balance with other items restored on a car.

As said many times here, the original stamping was once an indication of an original engine, AND a car that had not been screwed up. It is this second part most forget. THAT is what made the value, a car that was not screwed up*.

All of that is meaningless in view of cars being taken back to bare parts and reassembled as the factory did. Now they are just like a new car in every way and detail.

However, sales people and "investors" keep the myth alive that the original engine is somehow $40,000 better than an identical engine built last week. 25 years ago - yes, today - a fool and his money are soon parted.

* - screwed up. Anyone from the '60s, '70s, and early '80s remember these cars. 307s in them with wiring harnesses spliced a dozen places, 283s in place of 327s and 350s because someone had run the car in only two speeds - WOT and panic downshifts. Cars with Holleys on adapter plates with scraps of wire and tape holding throttle linkages. Spark plug wires held off the headers with bread ties.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema! - Another opinion

I wouldn't.

While you may view it as restoration, too many others do not. If someone pays you what they consider above the market value of an NOM car sometime in the future, they could turn around and sue you for deceiving them.

Correctly stamped is not how these are judged, based on the information presented in this board. There is a lot of examination as to fonts, broach marks, and more, enough that you will be under scrutinty your builder is probably not aware of or capable of dealing with. Instead of judging on it being a good restoration, they will search if it is original, and then ding you severely when it is not. You will never be able to undo this black mark.

The points spread between an original engine (original stampings, etc.) and a correct casting number and correct date code block is not so much as to lose sleep over, as presented here. The grief from above can be avoided with very little penalty.

The 3782870 casting number block is very available. Often you can find these for $200 or less, for the bare block. Occasionally, you can find a complete engine for $500. Add $2000 to $3000 for rebuilding and your $5000 long block purchase becomes a poor financial choice. Remember, this is a hobby, and some of the hobby is searching for those elusive parts.

The market place is screwed up. Too many slick used car salesmen have picked up on the value of "original engines" and have converted it to a "numbers matching" environment where they deceive the public daily. They have iron-clad contracts and a lawyer on retainer. Their profit allows for the rare fight over originality. You don't. Don't get sucked into crossing the line of restoring a car and trying to pass it off as original to raise its value.

Me? I'd drop in a 350 with probably an L82 cam and enjoy it to drive while watching for a 3782870 block at the shows and swap meets that falls in close to my dates. Then I'd build it to match the car (no restamping) and hang onto it for the day when I would go to judging.

But I'd be darned if I'd pay $5000 for a long block only that you still need to spend another $1000 to complete to have an engine that just may create more headaches than you can imagine.

Not when your goal could be done for $2000.

[`Michael Southard]

Easy Gentlemen...

I'm quite new to the "restoration" scene, and though I've had my vette for just over 20 years I admit that I have not been involved in deep corvette history, not to mention my own car. I am now in a position to be able to do whatever I want to my car, ergo the question.

I did not expect such a "spirited" response. Judging and selling was never a consideration for me. Also, while reading other forums on this very subject, nieve as I may be, this practice of finding correct numbered blocks and even complete engines I assumed was normal. But then as my wife has told me, I am nievely honest.

I sold a few vehicles in my day including a 69' vette, and the first thing I tell a perspective buyer is every thing that is wrong or could go wrong with the car. I have lost some buyers and a few bucks, but I have a clear conscience and feel good about the sale when they drive off.

I was merely trying to ascertain wether the original 340HP would be a streetable engine today. And wondered if it would be worth the $$$ to attempt to put an engine in the car, that I could say "this is exactly what this car WOULD have had in it and this is what it WOULD have looked like". AND I love the sould of a solid lifter vehicle at 5,000 rpm!

Sorry if I caused any bad feelings with any body, but that was certainly not my intent.
Mike S.

[George C.]

Re: C-2 L-76 Dilema!

Kenny,

It is all stock, 11:1 solid lifter L76 motor.

George

#36908

[Mike Cobine]

The most controversial topic

You will find is the engine stamp pad. I doubt anything is more.

Now if you want the fun of a solid lifter small block, I’d opt for a 302 and a 4.11 rear. Built right, you can expect a usable range from 3000 rpm to 8000 rpm and there is nothing like hearing a small block running about 8 grand.

Except maybe 9 grand.

Of course, it wouldn't look stock.

[`Michael Southard]

Re: The most controversial topic

Wow, I have never even been close to any thing over 6,000 grand. I'm sure the engines I hear on TV (NASCAR) do not do them justice. Well I got a little time to think about it. I start stripping the frame down tomorrow.

[Dick W.]

Re: The most controversial topic

And add the factory cross-ram and the 140 cam. Properly prepared rods and crank, valve spring pressure, etc and the engine will run all day at 9,000 rpms and with a little luck 9,500 rpms. And this was done with 60's technology. 1968 or 1969 Smokey Yunicks 302 Camaro qualified faster at Charlotte than the 427 F..ds, 426 Hemis and the 427 Chevies. Twisting the little 302 to almost 10 grand. What a sweet sound!