Doing it yourself - something of the past?

[Mike Cobine]

I've noticed more and more on here that people instantly send people asking for help to vendors. Once, we did our own work, but now, it seems most simply want to send it out to have it done.

Painting Corvettes - it seems like everyone sends them out to only a select few for those perfect paint jobs now. Heck we used to have CLUBS once and members would meet at a house, a gallon or two of stripper, a few cold drinks, and two hours later a car is bare.

Another night, a couple would prime it and block sand it. Then they would paint it.

The paint was usually in par with what the factory did. And it didn't cost $4000 to do.

Clocks - we just had a question about that and everyone wanted to send a non-working clock out to have rebuilt by someone who charges a bunch for essentially 20 minutes of work. If you have a non-working clock, send it to me and I'll fix the darn thing and steal your money as well as the next guy.

I'm not talking restoration, just making the thing run!

This is supposed to be a hobby, and hobbies are something YOU do, not send out to everyone else to do.

[Roy B.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

Them were the days when many people were poor, young and could see better.

[Richard S.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

Mike,
Good message....and I hope it will motivate some people to try and get into the hobby part of owning an older Corvette if that is what they would really like to do. Some will not for various reasons and that's fine. From my own experience I can tell you that access to this NCRS discussion board and the experience of the NCRS membership is what has me attempting to do more with my Corvettes and enjoying every moment of it. When I first acquired my first older Corvette I did not know anything about Corvettes or cars in general for that matter. It was only with the help and encouragement of a fellow NCRS Montreal chapter member, Brian Hay, that I was able to learn and enjoy working on the less complicated items. I think the NCRS does a great job with this website and those that take the time to contribute their experience truly deserve our most sincerest thanks. There are also some members who help "observer" judges at the various level meets to understand originality and function. Many Chapters hold hands on "tech sessions" and this can be the most valuable and encouraging part of NCRS membership to those with very little knowledge or experience. The most senior and knowledgeable NCRS members should be aware that they have the most to offer and that the younger/inexperienced members will be extremely grateful for their input. I would encourage those senior members who do not usually contribute to this discussion board to do so more often and thank those who do for all of us interested in learning and trying to do things ourselves.

[David N.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

Mike,

You are making some very valid points about the benefits of being an active member in a local club. As a member of the Corvette Club of Michigan, I can relate to your statement of "it used to be," Our club has had hands on Technical Sessions presented by semi-professionals(Vette enthusiasts) as well as representives of outside vendors. All have a place and purpose. As a retired Ford Motor Quality Control Laboratory Engineer(old school, some formal college knowledge, experience growing up in a family of 5 kids, a Dad who did his own vehichle repair & maintenance, 2 older brothers and 1 older sister who had to have the "basics" ie. know how to change a flat tire, do their own tune-ups, minor chores like cleaning it inside and out, etc. I think you get my drift. And as a father of 3 myself, 2 sons and a daughter. The eldest is almost a clone of his dad. He loves automobiles, has earned his living in the radiator repair business, worked as a mechanic, enjoys a challenge of making it run, etc. The second son is a computer Geek, also a well educated computer science degree holder from Northwestern University. He also enjoys a challenge but of the computer kind. He has delved into more automotive issues as he is now the father of 3 kids and believes in "trying to solve some Audi service problems" and save some cash.

Any how, one must lobby the club where one is active to include this "good old days type of informal tech. session." Try inviting some other club members to share their knowledge and experiences, I still enjoy same. David Nims member #19639 '69 BB conv.

[Don S.]

Re: Doing it yourself - likehome cookin

Doing it yourself is like home cooking. basic and good but not fancy . I have seen numerous remarks belittling non professional restorations. C,mon guys you cant have it both ways. If we can;t do it we send it out. It is cheaper in the long run because some of us screw it up. (ie: now need 3500 dollar new air conditioning system. )

[William C.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

I even today try to do many things on my cars myself, but I have also learned that some thngs I have not mastered at this time may not need to be learned for a one-time event. I have repaired clocks on occasion, and learned when I need to send them out as being beyond my capability. I build engines and Transmissions, but don't care to learn body and paint work, and I send my suspension parts out to Bairs as they are better wquipped to do the work than I am. We all make choices, and each of us has to draw their own line as to what involvement in the "Hands on" aspect of the hobby is right for them. I give everyone credit for participation, and I believe after all, a recommendation for a quality service was what was asked for, so probably what was needed at the time..

[Scott Marzahl]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

I'm sure a lot of folks do not have the time or patience to do all the restoration themselves. One thing that really irks me to no end is when I meet folks at NCRS events, whether local or regional and I say I'm restoring a 67 convertible and they say something along the lines like "it will never be as good as having it shipped off and done professionally." Oooh that kils me.
You're right Mike, it is a hobby and I consider myself a darn good mechanic, detail oriented and craftsman. So far on this '67 basket case, I've blasted and painted the frame, rebuilt the entire suspension, the calipers and master cylinder, the engine, transmission, starter, alternator, carb, distributor, steering box, steering column, glove box and dash cluster. As for the body, it was a mess. It's been hit the in front several times and had some serious rust and someone sandblasted it. I've removed almost every panel to weld in new donor sections of "bird cage" and installed all new rivets. I'm now putting it back together. The body panels that were beyond repair are being replaced with those from Corvette Image. For me, it is one of many hobbies and my way of unwinding for a few hours every week. Yes, I'm going to paint it too, basecoat, clear coat in Marlboro Maroon. Heck, maybe someday I'll even get to drive it

[`Michael Southard]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

The art isn't completely dead. I do virtually every thing myself, though when I'm done some times I wish I had sent it out. But that's OK, I just get to do it again and gain some more experience.

I'm a fair mechanic and am tackling a(1st time effort)body off on my 63, and will do every thing myself from front to rear, bushings to bearings, clock to carb. Fortunately my body is in great shape, otherwise I would attempt that as well.

I've often thought that it was a hobby for people like us, not necessarily for every one who wanted to own a vette. I can understand that some people just like the car and cannot or do not want to work on them. No one ever said you have work on them to love them. Though I do think that is the most rewarding part.
Mike S.

[Scott Marzahl]

Forgot to say Thanks to all who've helped!!

I totally didn't mean to forget to say Thanks for the folks who have helped me with my efforts either. Guys like Joe Lucia who helped with part numbers and Jerry Bramlet who went out of his way to send me can of spray paint for my cluster, John Hinckley who is always willing to supply some needed info like that to set up my distributor and Clem for that carb gasket! It's these kind off folks that make this a great hobby.

[Mike Cobine]

Granted some can, and some can't

And I fully respect those who do and who wished they could but can't. I mentioned paint, but as we know, you can get lucky and make it nice or you can mess up and spend more yourself than if you have it done. And not everyone has the facilities. Painting under a tree really isn't an option.

And then there are all the health warnings on paint anymore, maybe no one should paint.

I'm glad to see all who have said they do their own, or as much as they can. And that is good. I just noticed a trend that there getting to be more and more who were sending them out for so much.

Granted some things are easier, faster, and better suit the project to let the expert do it.

I had my frame straightened. I could have done it, but I didn't have tie downs in the garage or the 20 ton rams or a few other things. And for the $150 for having a shop put the bare frame on the rack and do it, it would be hard to justify buying equipment and doing it myself.

I had my short block assembled rather than me. The shop charged $50 to do the short block and if it died in the first 30 minutes of breaking in the cam, I could take it back to them rather than sit there with my face in my hands.

I've built several engines, and while most run fine (great really), occasioally one can just mess up. For many, the investment is too great to take the learning step and so they wisely let the pro put the engine together. In this day of original blocks, I'd never criticize someone for letting a pro put it together rather than risk losing the original block to a learning failure.

But many things we seem quick to point to the vendors of services. Many of the simpler things could be handled by most, and that is part of the hobby. The recent conversation on reskinning aluminum is a perfect example of telling someone how rather than telling where.

And maybe we need to stress local clubs again. Chapters are good, but not as much help if the nearest member is 25 miles away as is a local club that has 25 members within a mile of you.

NCCC created member clubs, where the local clubs became NCCC clubs by having 51% of the members also be members of NCCC.

The same could work with NCRS. And it would help NCRS grow and help NCRS members who need help.

[John G.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

I don't see any reason why one who decides to 'roll his own' should have to feel any guilt because he did it himself. Through the years like a lot of you I've seen, read, and heard horror stories concerning both sides of the fence - DIY as well as professional resto work. That doesn't mean that a DIY'er can do absolutely everything that might be involved in completing a resto project but there is a lot - given one's time, ability, knowledge, desire, and commitment that one can do on his own to see a project through to completion. Easier said than done, sure. For those of us that have the time, good mechanical skills and material references along with a good understanding of the overall undertaking at hand, anything that we might do on our own cars should provide what all DIY'ers seek - the satisfaction of having done it ourselves. For those who don't mind dropping their dime on a professionally done resto that's ok too. But it almost seems 'too easy' to do if we're talking about the hobby aspect of Corvette ownership. In a sense, it almost seems as if some of our cars are turning out to be more perfect than when the left the factory .. ? . . My .02 ..

With respect to cosmetics, especially paint, that's best left to a pro but even then we read about guys who have had great results doing it themselves in their own garage . .! . . The stories about those who have had to leave their cars for excess months, even several years, before a paint job was finally completed smacks of putting guys through the 'Twilight Zone', in my opinion, unless I'm missing something ..

Guys who do it themselves should be commended for their efforts - not ridiculed or snickered at. Way to go Scott and Michael .. ! . .

John

[Rob M.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

Hi all,

First of all I would like to thank anyone advising me on many topics of stuff I've decided to do myself.

Certainly there have been some items I decided not to do myself:
* engine machine work (allthoug the assembly is currently done by myself with the help of Sander
* clock repair (had to be done again (by recending it to the States) and is still not right, so getting it out for a repair is certainly no garantee that it is done better than doing it yourself)
* carb rebuild (done perfectly)
* distributor rebuld (beautifull job, looks like new)
* horn rebuild (honks like it left the factory)

Some stuff is worthwhile sending out, some can be done easily by yourself depending on your skill set. One thing is for sure: when the car is completely restored 90% of the fun is over. 10% is left in driving the car. So at that point in time I will be start looking for a nice 53-55 model or a C2...

greetings,
Rob.




The C1 '59 Restoration Project

[Joe S.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

"A mans got to know his limitations"! Clint said it best.

On my 63 I did a considerable amount of work myself. But there are those things that for time, equipment, skill, annoyance factor, etc. it was just a better thing for me to send out to someone who possesses that which I do not.

No apologies here. There are many excellent skilled people, and many are NCRS members that advertise in the Driveline. I'll continue to use them.




Joe's 63 FI Convertible

[John M.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

John,
You are absolutely correct. You can build a Top Flight car without sending it out, and people do it every day. I built a 60 that judged 99% without bonus points, and won a Duntov award. The only thing that I farmed out on this car was the chrome plating and the engine machine work. I will guarantee you that the level of pride that I experienced at judging, could hve not deen duplicated if I had just opened a checkbook.

Regards, John McGraw

[Joe C.]

Re: Doing it yourself - something of the past?

Mike:

I do almost all of my own work, and generally better than if I sent it out. This is mainly because a "labor of love" takes a LOT of time. I would have to charge a fortune for the work that I do, because I sweat all of the details. There are, maybe one or two things that I am not equipped to do.
I understand that not everyone has the time or ability to do this, and so if somebody asks for help, I would rather steer him/her to somebody reputable, rather than let him/her get eaten by the wolves.

Joe

BTW: I rebuilt my own clock with an original movement. I did, however, send all my faded instrument faces to Roger Scott (Corvette Instruments)to be silk screened. Can I send my next set of faces to you for silk screening?