Fake 884 alternator?

[Kurt France]

I have been searching for a 884 correctly dated alternator for my early 70 for awhile. I have tried Mr. Pirkle and a couple of others...all to no avail.

Luckily...I think...I have found one. I have had the owner send me pictures, the front and back casings look as per described by Joe Lucia in the archives, the top view with the numbers and the casting line is causing me some concern. I have a picture from the 70 registry of the top of another 884 and they seem a bit different but I am not sure...but maybe paranoid. The numbers seem to be the right height and design, but the depth is a little too perfect The A after the 61 is a little dropped like the picture on the Registry.

The casting seam is in the right place but looks a little different...can the alternator being cleaned and refinished cause the picture to look a little different or is the seam a sure tell that the alternator is fake.

[Jack H.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

Yes, alternators can be 'faked' and especially true of the rarer, harder to find units like '696, '884, '551.... This is a tough call even amoung senior Master Judges unless they specialize in alternators (like the Pirkles) and have seen a SIGNIFICANT cross section of typical factory production with all the foibles, font changes, Etc. that happened over time.

The cases were 'roll stamped' and there WAS variance in font depth/clarity that's pretty hard to exactly duplicate by hand stamping. Particularly, factory originals tend to exhibit font depth variance at the start and at the end of a line of emboss AND you'll see variance in font depth between the top line and the bottom line.

There's no firm rule on how much depth difference you'll see on a given factory original case as it was induced by the uniformity of case postion as it rolled beneath the emboss machine and that varied from unit to unit.... What IS a dead give away is the absense of the raised Delco Remy script logo on the front of the front case (sometimes obscured by the pulley/fan installation). Generic, unstamped cases are available from 3rd party sources (repair a broken adjusting ear, Etc.) and these won't bear the Delco source ID.

If seller is confident he's offering the correct item, then he shouldn't have a problem giving you a letter of authenticity with return/refund priviledge, if you have the item inspected by an expert within a short period of time after the sale. I have to believe that either of the Pirkles would be willing to render an opinion ESPECIALLY if you have them do a concours restoration of the alternator for you....

[Kurt France]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

Thanks for the information...

[Robert C.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

Curt, Have the guy E-mail you a picture of the top looking down (showing the seam line, date etc. and forward to John Pircle. John will know imediatly.

[Edward M.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

I talked to a guy a few years ago who was restamping this very number, among others. He described the process to me as follows:

Get a correctly configured case (i.e. a 1969 or 1970 vintage alternator). Sand down the area withing the casting seam where the numbers are. Engrave a new set of numbers on the case. Refinish the case to look original.

He told me that he was selling these to the Camaro / Chevelle crowd. He said the Corvette people were too picky.

Not to say that this is what your seller has, but there are known fakes out there. Good luck.

[Joe L.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

Kurt-----

Post a picture of the alternator (stamping, drive-end case[front], and slip-ring end case [rear]) and we might be able to provide additional info.

[Kurt France]

Re: Fake 884 alternator?

I posted 3 pictures, click on the alternator link and the three photos should appear, front case, rear case and numbers.

[Kurt France]

Re: Fake 884 alternator? WITH LINK

Ooops forgot to link it....

http://photos.yahoo.com/kfrance4915

[Patrick H.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator? WITH LINK

Any chance of getting the numbers picture any clearer?

I know, picky, picky, picky.

Patrick

[Joe L.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator? WITH LINK

Kurt-----

The case configuration, both front and rear, is absolutely correct for a 1970 alternator. As far as the stamping goes, it does look a little suspicious to me. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's not authentic. There are several "features" that make me suspicious, though. First, especially on alternators of this period, there is usually a slightly larger space between the first four and last 3 digits of the part number (i.e. 1100 884 rather than 1100884 with all digits equally spaced). This was because the last 3 digits were the only ones that were regularly changed in the stamping die. This alternator appears to have all equally spaced digits in the part number.

Second, while the "V" representing volts usually does appear to be VERY slightly larger in font size, this one appears "exagerated".

Third, while the case appears to have been refinished by some abrasive method, the stamped characters look like they have not been affected, at all, by the refinishing. In other words, they look like numbers as freshly stamped into a new case.

Keep in mind, though, that there were MANY different machines producing (and stamping) alternators at the Delco-Remy plants. Alternators were VERY high production items as they were used across the board on all GM cars and trucks. So, millions were produced every year. While the 1969 and 1970 alternator case configurations were quite unique, the machines that they were produced and stamped on were likely very non-unique. So, I think that it's very hard to say, with certainty, that particular nuances of stamping configuration are either "original" or "non-original".

Notwithstanding the above, the 1969 and 1970 alternator case configurations are quite rare all by themselves. In my mind, this is 99.9% of what you're buying and what's important. Of course, others seem to feel that "numbers" are what's all-important. So, I wouldn't necessarily pass on this alternator just because the stamping might be non-original.

[Bill W.]

Re: Fake 884 alternator? WITH LINK

Hi Kurt. I own the alt. pictured in the registery. Joe is right about the spacing of the 884 #s. Also on mine only the #1 in the date code has a base on it,the 1s in the part # and volt info do not have bases.Also my 8s are not the same as the ones in your picture , but mine has a 70 date ? I agree with Joe the case looks correct and is very rare and hard to find .the stamping im not to sure about. John Pirkle would know for sure . A good shot of the cast line at the # area would be helpfull .If the price is right go for it...Bill

[Kurt France]

Re: Fake 884 alternator? WITH LINK

Thanks for all the detailed replies.

I am going to mull it over for a day or so but I am leaning toward getting it and taking a closer look. The price is high enough to not make me suspicious and low enough to keep me interested.

When and if I get it in I will post more pictures.