"Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

[Lonnie Wiggins]

Helping my brother on his 34,000 mile '73 coupe has started me thinking about this whole "survivor"/"restored"/"original" thing.

This car has spent the last 18 years undriven, in an enclosed garage - not humidity/temperature controlled, but at least with the door always closed to the elements (in north Texas). Except for the engine, the car is about as original as they come, but inspite of being garaged and undriven all that time the undercarraige has much surface rust with little of the original finish.

I find it hard to believe that there could be many 30+ year old cars with significant original finish underneath. Opinions?

So...how are cars with this condition prepped for say, the Bowtie award (if I've done my research correctly). Cleaning up the underside and adding paint here and there (or replacing the original struts, for example) would amount to "restoration", would it not? Are cars competing for awards which involve "orginallity" left with the undercarraiges in such condition? Yes, I know, I need to go to an NCRS event and see for myself - just as soon as it warms up...

[Kevin M.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

"Except for the engine" this leaves out Bowtie. And restoring a 73 might cost more than it's worth. My 2 cents.
Kevin

[Mike M.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

lonnie: when prepairing a vette for consideration by natioanl team leader for bowtie judging, its acceptable to clean off any dirt, grime rust etc but its not wise to repaint anything as repainting will bring about a deduct in bowtie judging. what i've done in past with a mildly surface rusted frame is to remove all the dirt/grease/oil/rust with Go-Joe(its not too hard on any remaining frame paint left over from factory dip process). after you have it a clean as practical, i'd coat any bare metal with used engine oil out of your buddies diesel engine--it's got a good deal of carbon in the oil that'll look close to factory frame paint and it'll also obviously help prevent further oxidation of the bare metal. by all measn, don't repaint. it'll cost ya on the bowtie judging field. mike

[Rich G.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

I'm no where near an expert on this, but from what I read here and in the judging guide, the purpose of the Bow Tie award is to encourage people to show a car as they found it if they believe it is original. This is to help us understand how things were done "at the factory". So a rusty car with flat tires and a cracked windshield and torn seats is an excellent candidate as long as no one has tried to clean it up. I think the owner of such a car would go for the bow tie judging and then restore the car. This concept is different than the Bloomington Survivor which only requires a certain percentage of the car to be "unrestored".

I also think the car you describe could get a couple of "stars" toward the Bow Tie, but obviously not the one for the motor. You should get the Judging Guide and read up. I think there one star each for paint, interior, chassis and engine. If you get all of them, then you get a an extra star and the "5 Star Bow tie."

Rich Giannotti

[Patrick H.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Rich,

"I think the owner of such a car would go for the bow tie judging and then restore the car."

Can't be done. If you restore part of the car, you can LOSE your Star and/or Bowtie award. It HAS happened. That is why a car's NCRS Judging life is "over" once it receives a Bowtie Award, unless you receive special dispensation from the Pope (i.e. Team Leader or Judging Chairman).

In addition, the 5th Star is only available if you bring you car to 4 more events as a Display. The requirements are spelled out in the manuals.

Patrick
72 Bowtie coupe

[Dick W.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Rich the overall condition of the car also enters into the judging process. Here is a brief exerpt from the Judging Reference Manual.

"The judged section requires an 80 to 85% pass with the following standard "Does the item, part, fabric, plating or coating appear to actually be that which was specifically installed or applied on this car at the time of manufacture". If this is successfully passed the vote with the following standard "Does the area judged display significant educational and historical value which should be preserved in its present condition" is taken"

Just because that no one has done anything to the car since new does not mean that it can obtain a Star on any section. I would advise anyone interested in this process to purchase the NCRS Judging Reference Manual and study this section. Other than cleaning, theoretically you cannot improve a car for judging. Some attempts have been made with most costing the owner a section in the judging.

[Lonnie Wiggins]

"Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Thanks very much....exactly what I was looking for. Yes, I know the car may not be a "Bowtie" car because of the current engine problem, but worthwhile or not I'm interested in tips as to how to treat the undercarraige while thinking about the car longterm. I'm still a little unsure how maintenance from years ago would affect "originallity" of the car...like a small fiber glass repair at the back of the right rear quarter panel. Perhaps I'll find out before my brain explodes trying to keep track of all of this.

[Patrick H.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Lonnie,

You can try the oil like Mike mentions, else I've started using CorrosionX on my 72's chassis. I've been very impressed so far with the results. I am also testing it for durability on my 1994 4x4 pickup, and it is holding up exceptionally well. Right now I'm wiping it on, as the aerosol version would just spray all over.

Patrick

[Tom G.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Lonnie - a few years back my '61 received its Bowtie award and I had a similar problem with the frame. A very slow and deliberate cleaning with solvent removed much of the surface dirt. I started with stiff bristle brushes and worked my way to soft brushes as I got closer to the frame and suspension pieces. Amsoil makes a product that only comes in 5 gallon cans and it is a rust prohibitor but it totally colorless. I fact, it brightened the remaining color markings on the various suspension pieces. I do not drive the car very much so I cannot vouch for every day ware, but it lasts about 6 months between applications.

Tom O'Grady

[Paul B.]

Re: "Survivor"....what about the undercarraige?

Lonnie, I've "Survivored" a 38K '74 Coupe twice('94 & '04), Yellow '80 4spd Coupe in '01 and a 42K '68 Coupe in '03. The '74 is a Five Star Bowtie & the '68 a Four Star Bowtie. As Pat Hulst mentioned, it has to be "displayed" 4 more times at various NCRS events to get "it's" 5th Star, hence 5 Star Bowtie, and this is also leaving the car in "as judged" condition when it got it's Four Star Award. What I do not believe was mentioned yet was at Bloomington for "Survivor" each category must score at least a 50% or higher on "originality" as deemed by the judges. No, you do not have to have original exhaust, battery, tires, shocks, etc. What the judges ask themselves is "Does the chassis "APPEAR" to be unrestored on this car?", "Does the Interior "APPEAR" to be unrestored on this car?" and so on for the four categories, Exterior, Interior, Engine compartment & Chassis. I believe the one part NOT mentioned is with "Survivor", you can FAIL one of the four categories and still obtain a "Survivor" Award with passing three out of four categories. Passing only three takes your car out of "BenchMark" contention, but that's another topic.