AFB Carb (C1 and C2) Runs Dry - NCRS Discussion Boards

AFB Carb (C1 and C2) Runs Dry

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  • Michael H.
    Expired
    • January 29, 2008
    • 7477

    #16
    An Experiment

    Joe,

    I think a test is in order here if someone with an AFB carburetor is willing to participate. If one of these cars was run to op temp and then immediately remove the carburetor, we may learn where the fuel is going. I've done this many times in the 60's and early 70's when Rochester had the same problem with their Q-Jet. Secure a long tapered punch vertically in a vise and place the carburetor on the punch through one of the mounting holes. You will then be able to view any dripping that may occur, if that's what the problem is.

    I have a feeling there will be no fuel dripping from most of these AFB's. I think the problem is evaporation. I remember this exact problem from when these cars were new but it wasn't as severe as it's been in the last 20 years. The one thing that has had quite an effect on the speed at which the evaporation occurs is the difference in the fuel that we've had since the late 70's.

    When the engine is shut off at op temp, I believe most of the evaporation occurs in the first 45 minutes, but not enough to prevent the car from starting the next day. From there, the rate of evaporation slows down but eventually takes the remaining fuel in the bowl causing the exact problem everyone has described.

    This problem is not unique to Corvette or even old cars. I still have my 85 S-10 Blazer (yea, I know, time to get rid of it) with a carburetor and it does the exact same thing that everyone here has described. I've gone through the carburetor several times over the years but the problem continues. There's zero leakage from the float bowl and no leak externally. It's just an evaporation problem. If I run the engine for just a minute or two to shuffle cars in the driveway, it takes several more days for the fuel to evaporate but if I shut it off at operating temp, the bowl is empty in about three days. Will be interesting to hear any results of the test, especially if done with a hot carburetor.

    Michael

    Comment

    • Mike McKown

      #17
      I agree, Chris.

      Sit for a couple days, starts ok. Sit for a week, takes a lot of cranking to fill the bowl. If it was heat boiling the fuel out, it wouldn't start after sitting one day. I guess a person could easily check this by starting the engine and then quickly shut it back off before engine heat got up. If engine heat boiling the bowl dry was your problem then it should start okay as the heat is now not a factor.

      It's been a long time since I've had an AFB apart but I don't remember any way for fuel to leak out of the bowl. Evaporate? You can leave an open container of gasoline on your workbench for a week and it won't evaporate that fast.

      At one time, I thought the fuel in the bowl was somehow being siphoned back to the tank. I don't see how that is physically possible though.

      I don't have an answer.

      Comment

      • Chuck R.
        Expired
        • April 30, 1999
        • 1434

        #18
        Re: I vote leak down

        I agree that if it were a boil out issue, it would be present the next time the cooled off engine is started either one day or one week later.

        I'll venture that it's due to a very minute trickle down of fuel weeping by the seats and running down into the intake/cylinders.

        By the time the car is started again, the thinned out fuel is long gone so there wouldn't even be a puff out the exhausts.

        Hot or cold, I'll bet a bench test will show this.

        Chuck

        Comment

        • John H.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • December 1, 1997
          • 16513

          #19
          Re: An Experiment

          I also think this issue relates to evaporation of today's fuels; I never used to think much about it many years ago, but being spoiled these days by our instant-starting fuel-injected daily drivers, it comes into focus on my carbureted cars. Both of my cars ('67 327/300 and '69 Z/28) have the original Holleys (restored/rebuilt) which are completely leak-free, and I have the exact symptoms described above by others. If either of them has sat for a week or less, they start instantly; if they sit for ten days or more, there's no pump shot, and the bowls have to fill before they fire. Neither shows any evidence of fuel leakage into the intake - no deposits or coloration on the plenum floor prior to starting. The 327/300 has the "hot-slot" holes blocked (the Z/28 doesn't have that "feature"), and both have the correct production gaskets/baffles and functional heat risers. I vote for evaporation as the culprit

          Comment

          • Bill B.
            Very Frequent User
            • June 30, 1999
            • 182

            #20
            Re: I vote leak down

            I responded earlier to this thread and although I have the problem and always have since I acquired my pride and joy in 1987, I don't consider it a big problem. I just figured that was normal. Another question I have though; I have heard that if the phoenalic block is not installed under the AFB, it will be a real chore to remove it from the intake at a future date. Is there any truth to this? Thank you.

            Bill Bonnichsen

            Comment

            • Chuck R.
              Expired
              • April 30, 1999
              • 1434

              #21
              Re: I think

              that's the reason for the stainless shim plate that goes on the intake first Bill.

              Just a guess.

              Chuck

              Comment

              • John H.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • December 1, 1997
                • 16513

                #22
                Re: I think

                The regular gasket goes on the intake first, then the phenolic insulator block, then the metal baffle plate, then the carb (on a '65 327/300).

                Comment

                • Chuck R.
                  Expired
                  • April 30, 1999
                  • 1434

                  #23
                  Re: So John,

                  I guess that means I got it "Back A _ _ wards" huh?

                  Comment

                  • Jerry S.
                    Expired
                    • May 31, 2003
                    • 145

                    #24
                    Re: No fuel?

                    Why should you be any differnet? Fuelie people have been priming the systems for the last 40 some years.

                    Comment

                    • Stephen W.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • March 1, 2002
                      • 301

                      #25
                      : No fuel?

                      Funny with all the same symtoms one would think GM has posted service bulletins out to the dealers about it. Like I stated in my earlier post about my Dads '66 Buick GS with an AFB on the 401ci "nail head" Wildcat. He did complain about it to the dealer when the car was brand new. The dealer told him it was "normal". The Buick engine has an open intake manifold that sits above the the Lifter Galley cover. So I dont think heat was an issue on that engine. Is there any way to check for these old service bulletins?

                      Comment

                      • John H.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • December 1, 1997
                        • 16513

                        #26
                        Re: : No fuel?

                        Steve -

                        When the issue was considered "normal" back in those days, no service bulletin was issued; the customer was just told "they're all like that" when there was a problem with no practical field fix

                        Comment

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