My NCRS Experience

[John F]

I have waited almost 6 months to post this as I wanted to think for a long time about it and not make an emotional post. I think that I can post now just a few facts that may help as this org. moves forward. I am 48 and like most dreamed of these cars as a kid, well finally my ship came in and I bought my first one 7 years ago. It was a 62 that had 3 top flights but had been stored for 4 or 5 years. I remeber asking why, and the guy (Richard in Sacramento) said that he was going for Duntov, but the judge had a 62 Duntov and docked him enough on the paint such that he missed by fractions, I was shocked-why would anybody do that-was I naive! Time went on and I acquired an "original" 70 LT1. Best I could tell after the judging guide, past owners etc. it was original. I took it to four paint shops and they told me it was original paint, so I felt good about it. Took it to Bloomington and several NCRS people including one very top official went over it for 30 minutes prior to survivor judging-they told me over and over-what a great car, perfect, etc. etc. Why arent you going for Gold. Well my wife was with me and she hates corvettes, but was having a good time, we were having a good time, and she was coming around to the hobby. So here come the judges and I watch the NCRS official go over and whisper to them, they all glance at my car (so I know he's telling them waht a great car, right?) The get there look for 5 minutes and go on to the next car (I had been watching them and they spent 15 minutes minimum on all prior cars). I call them back and say what gives? Oh this is wrong, that is wrong, these wires dont look right, etc. etc. We are sorry and move on. I am stunned! I go to the NCRS official to say goodbye and shake his hand and he will not even look at me!


Well I always give people the benifit of the doubt, but I'm not stupid. Of course it does turn out the official has the same car, thats a surprise isnt it? Ok, now 90% of you will dismiss me as an a-hole, or idiot or something, that is your choice. I know from being here for several years that there are some in NCRS that know this stuff goes on and are concerned about the future of the org. Do what you want with this post, I sold the car back in Sept. and am out of the hobby. I learned one thing, my original purchase of the 62 from Richard-he was not kidding NCRS messed with him as well. I think NCRS should pay attention to some of these stories, cause you're gonna have a dead org. if not. Like I said its been 6 months, I am over it-life is good-but this club needs to look in the mirror.

[ken robb]

Re: My NCRS Experience

In reading your post this morning, I feel that you might have gotten off to a bad experience with NCRS. I have been in NCRS for almost 20 years. I have done a Duntov on a 65 as well as Bloomington Gold'ed it. It was an experience to do these to say the least. My wife and I have enjoyed the fellowship and friends we have developed by being in the organization over the years. If there is a local NCRS chapter in your area, I would hope that you might give it another shot. there is more in the org. than just the car judging. Since I don't know the actual happenings of your "bad" judging I can't say it doesn't happen. Good Luck, Ken

[Bill Clupper]

Re: My NCRS Experience

In addition to what Ken said, I would add that "Bloomington" is NOT and NCRS affilliated event, and although the nature of the hobby allows some NCRS members to be seen there and to participate, the event is handled under a different set of rules and different judging standards. I would hope that you would explore local chapters that are in your area and get to know some of the people. I have both judged and had cars judged. It is not easy on either side of the clipboard, but I have seen a remarkable degree of consiscancy within NCRS judging over the years. I cannot comment on the Bloomington situation, other than to ask the NCRS not be measured by a "Bloomington" experience.

[Paul R Ouzts]

Re: My NCRS Experience

I can easily imagine that incidents of "bad or inconsistent" judging can occur. After all, humans are involved in the judging matrix. I hate to see John & his wife leave our ranks on one bad experience. I haven't seen the judging guides so I don't know what is involved - however I would hope the judges have IQs high enough to leave their petty prejudices at home and follow, to the letter, the published rules. I hope John and his Wife reconsider NCRS or at least look for a local group as Ken suggests as they will be missed. Most of us out here would kill for Johns' "bad" car. I imagine NCRS takes judging very seriously and they will probably address this issue.

[Lou Lapham]

Re: My NCRS Experience,Bloomington?

John-First off having anything,Corvettes,model trains,art,etc.,that you created or bought or just liked,judged by an outside party is difficult.Like they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".Second you speak of "Bloomington,Survivor judging,neither of these are NCRS sanctioned.Bloomington Gold is a private originization that charges for judging your car.NCRS people could be involved,but they should be acting independent of their NCRS duties.Shame on the people involved for at least not explaining the problem they had with your cars condition.I think you real gripe is with the "Bloomington Gold" people.If you already haven't i'd send them a note about your expereince.Sorry you bailed out so soon their really are a lot of good people in the Corvette hobby,many of them in the NCRS.Regards,Lou

[Paul B.]

Re: My NCRS Experience

John, read through your response and all the following posts. I have seen this also happen a few times in both NCRS judging and Bloomington judging. I myself even had a "not so fun" experience with one of my Corvettes being judged last summer. I even wrote to the event chairman after the event with no response. But, as like some of the other posts have stated judges are human, we all make mistakes. One thing that I don't think was mentioned is and I always wonder if we are going "overboard" with all these awards(now we have this Triple Crown, and I thought I heard something on Tripple Gold; what's next? Triple Top Flight? or how about Triple Duntov?)-yes, I know they are nice but they are'nt everything. Deep down all that really matters is what you think and care about. After all, it is your car, no one else's. Two of my cars have had several awards, but in all honesty the other two of my cars that don't have awards I like and enjoy better!!! It is how you value your cars yourself, with or without the awards. I would love the remote chance to even own a '70LT1 or even a '62. Paul Borowski Massillon, Ohio

[Jeff]

Are you nuts?

Judging is silly. How do you really judge anything but perfection? Are the wrong tires equal to a bad respray? Is a repro interior better than a restamped engine? Who knows? Who really cares? But for you to sell what you claim was a pristine original car and withdraw from a hobby just because someone, rightly or wrongly, didn't like it as much as you did, now that's sick, truly sick. You get my TopFlight award for ridiculousness. Personally, I think you need a team of psychologists, not an NCRS award.


JP

[Tom B.]

Re: Agreed

It wasn't the love of the hobby, it was the love of the award. What exactly was so wrong that it couldn't be fixed or, at the worst traded up the scale for, that someone would turn their back on something they supposedly loved.


Doing that is in the same league as the investors that used our hobby 12 years or so ago and wanted to run up the value has high as it could go. They both have no interest in Corvettes other than what it would bring them. I'd just as soon they all stay away, find something else to do, and play with their blue ribbons and commodities somewhere else. TBarr #24014

[Wally]

Don't buy a trailer queen!

Built one "show car", a 55, took seven years, shown twice, a Top Flight in Conn. and Bloomington Gold the next summer. I found out early on that it was not for me, sold the car a year later, bought a 93 to drive, key word is "drive".


I'm working on a 60 for a good friend, also a driver. I refuse to work on trailer queens other than the motors.


Drive the cars. Don't buy one for an investment, dumbest thing you can do!

[Alex Gilmour]

Amen

I have been an NCRS member off and on since the early 80's, and I too was once caught up in the originality mania, but now I own the car for pure enjoyment. As a matter of fact, I am going to be restifying my very original (and daily driven) 66 Coupe with some cool new speed parts. I also plan to yank the original motor and build a killer (400+ hp)small block so I dust off those pesky 5.0 Mustangs. Now, I don't plan to cut or chop anything that can't be reversed, but I refuse to suffer along with cast iron intakes and 30 year old cam technology when there are so many cool speed parts out there.


Awards are dumb. I would rather blast my car 0-60 than look at some certificate on the wall... Guys that trailer their cars around are missing the boat.


My $0.02,


Alex


'66 A/C Coupe

[G B.]

Before there was an NCRS...

...there were some jerks who were into Corvettes. Like most large public clubs, the NCRS probably has one of every kind of oddwad out there. I think we especially appeal to Corvette owners who, like me, are wrapped a little tight.


Finding fun, or at least contentment, within this hobby is easy. Just try my method of car selection next time. (And there will be a next time if you're a true car nut.) Pick your cars using the same logic you use in restaurants. Buy whenever and where ever you feel like it, and buy whatever you want that you can afford. Don't be concerned about what someone else thinks of your choice. You're the one who's paid for it and is going to enjoy it, right?

[Rob Brainard]

NCRS & Other Judging

I think some have missed the author's point. I not only own a 57 Corvette, but a few others. Judging, whether it be NCRS or some other club or show, is and always will be subjective. Even with NCRS guidelines, it is up to the indiviual to determine "How Good" a car or section of a car is. The author stated prior to judging, some of the people judging were giving him the "thumbs up" on his car. When the actual judging of his car happened they all but passed it by. I don't believe he was upset by not winning, but by not being given the chance to win a trophy. Last summer I came in second to a car with an unfinished interior. All I could do was shake my head. To the author, I must say that you will run into these situations like it or not, but don't give up on a great hobby with 99 44/100% great people.

[Roy S.]

Re: My NCRS Experience

John,


I'm confussed you speak of Bloomington survivor and Gold judging. Thenin the same sentnece rag on NCRS. NCRS is not Bloomington, bloomington judges are not NCRS judges. What makes a Bloomington event have NCRS officials? Sorry I missed something.

[Mark]

Re: My NCRS Experience

I'm sure you've seen senior NCRS judges at Bloomington judging their events. I know I have. This is what he means.

[Mike Hom]

you're not listening!

I see plenty of responses here making the distinction between "Bloomington" and NCRS - hey, that's not us, we wouldn't do that. What do you expect - Bloomington (like THAT is beneath us). The point is that the guy had a car he really liked, and thought he had found a hobby he could get into. By the mere act of one (supposedly) rigged judging, this fellah got disillusioned and quit. While I might agree with the sentiment that anyone who sells his prize because someone else doesn't like it might be wrapped a little loosely, I believe we are missing the point here. This is supposed to be a hobby, it is supposed to be fun. We are part of a community of Corvette lovers, and that community includes the Bloomington folks.


Like it or not, our cars are worth more when they have been "certified" be it gold or top flight. In that regard, when someone has a bad judging experience it becomes not only a personal affront, but also a potential financial issue. This is bad for our hobby. We want to encourage people to buy, drive, and enjoy their cars. We have to look in the mirror and realize that there are lots of other things for people to do with their time and money other than to pine over an 30-something year old Corvette. If we truly are interested in preserving the heritage of these great cars then we have to continue to promote the hobby as a family experience, and a fun one at that. It should be patently obvious that mr John Q. Public, which includes many Corvette owners, couldn't tell the NCCB from the NCRS from the NCCC. We are one hobby, and we must be able to recruit and retain new enthusiasts to sustain that hobby. These stories are all too common to those of us who are relatively new to the hobby. To those who got a little snooty with the response that it was "them" and not "us", you are totally, comnpletely missing the point.