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  • Joe

    65sidepipes

    I am performing a body off resto on a 65 coupe. Car is an original rear exhaust car with relatively low milage under 40,000, with all numbers matching. The car was a one owner and hasn't been on the road since 1980. The original exhaust was shot and needs to be replaced. My question is will I hurt the value of the car if I install sidepipes. I hate to modify the car but side exhaust does make the car in my opion. The car is being restored but not to true NCRS standards. I am painting some parts with cast blast which is a no no. This decision is killing me. If anyone can give me some guidance to help me make a decision please drop me a line. The car is currently preped and ready for paint. The bare frame is on jacks at this time.


    Thank
  • Dennis K.
    Infrequent User
    • September 30, 1983
    • 5

    #2
    Re: 65sidepipes

    If your car is mfgd after Nov. 64, you could put side exhaust on it without hurting the value. If you are not restoring to NCRS standards, do what makes you happy, but don't sell it later telling the buyer it's original sidepipe car. The AIM has the instrustions for the proper configuration. NCRS can determine if the car is as delivered from records & your vin & tag info. Enjoy the hobby.

    Comment

    • Mike Hom

      #3
      Re: 65sidepipes

      If you are not restoring "to NCRS standards" then you obviously are not concerned with point deductions, etc. If that is the case, I don't know why you are hesitating. I have a 65 coupe with side pips, and I agree that it MAKES the car. If you are not concerned with "concourse" type restoration then go for it. As far as the valuation of the car, It seems that an original car is always worth more than a modified one. Again, it depends on what you intend to do with the car. If you want to have it judged, be careful. If you are worried about maximizing the car's value to maximize your return (these cars should NOT be looked at as investments) , stick with the stock exhaust. But if you are after maximum FUN, go with the pipes! Good luck!

      Comment

      • Mike G

        #4
        Re: 65sidepipes

        If you were selling the car, and I was interested in it, the non-original pipes would be an issue --at least with me. (Assuming you're asking price was in the range of original cars, which is probably the case given the extent of your restoration.) Personally I could not bring myself to cut the rocker cover mounts off an original car.

        Comment

        • Tom B.
          Very Frequent User
          • February 1, 1994
          • 779

          #5
          Re: 65sidepipes

          Joe,


          The "purist" outlook would be to stick with the undercar exhaust, but I agree with the others that you should make the most out of your own enjoyment.


          I've had a converted side exhaust car before, but I haven't tried to restore a converted system, so I'm not sure exactly how "undetectably" reversible it would be. All of the side exhaust conversions I've seen had the rocker panel brackets cut off or removed as well as the fiberglass cut at the lower front side panel. I have seen some conversions that didn't bother to cut the rear fiberglass and it didn't interfere with the new set up, but unless there is a way to bend back the rocker panel brackets without removing them, or not cutting the front fiberglass, then the modifications or repair in those areas would be permanent.


          As far as value, original or not, side exhaust has usually been a popular and sellable feature. But I also believe you would lose some value because of the lost originality. Since you mentioned the low original mileage then I'd probably have a hard time deciding, too. But I also know that either way, once I made up my mind I'd be happy and I wouldn't look back. TBarr #24014

          Comment

          • Sheldon S.
            Very Frequent User
            • March 1, 1999
            • 474

            #6
            Re: 65sidepipes

            Dennis you mention in your reply that NCRS can tell how your car was when delivered from records. How can an individual find this out without having to go to a NCRS show and have the car judged? The vin and engine ident only tell about the color, interior and type of engine but do not give any other options. My car is a 65 so there was no tank sticker to confirm options nor a protecto plate.

            Comment

            • Paul Y.
              Very Frequent User
              • September 30, 1982
              • 570

              #7
              Re: 65sidepipes

              Joe, If you cut off the rocker panel mounts, send them to me. I need them for my 63. Thanks Paul 5962 P.S. I'll cut them back off and send them back to you if you want them later. Ha Ha
              It's a good life!














              Comment

              • Wayne M.
                Expired
                • March 1, 1980
                • 6414

                #8
                Re: '65 Sidepipes

                Joe --- You seem to like the pipes, so go for them. My 2 cents (since the return to originality is an issue for you) is to minimize the mods req'd; the rocker brackets do not need to come off -- you may have to bend some slightly inward to avoid rattling against the muffler. Buy a rear valance panel for a sidepipe car; save the original with the bezels for re-sale with the car (if the future owner wants to convert back). The factory N11 cuts in the fiberglass near the rear exhaust tip are not necessary. To avoid cutting the front fiberglass "tips" completely off, trim a little to clear the covers where they curve inward. You can paint the remainder of the exposed "tip" a flat black, and only the purists will notice. You may want to buy new outer splash shields --- they will have no rubber seal to burn, and you can drill the hole in them required for the front cover bracket (save the original shields for re-sale with the car).

                Comment

                • Peter Pescatore

                  #9
                  Re: 65sidepipes

                  Joe,


                  Everyone seems to have said there are alot of variables mostly around "what is your intent?" I agree with them all.


                  I have a 65 396 coupe w/factory sidepipes but not a original sidepipe car. The car is otherwise bone stock and gets alot of compliments at shows or meets. IF someone asks I just say "nope".It never stopped anybody from saying "real nice car".


                  Bottom line all I can say is everytime I look at em I love em. So enjoy! A future buyer may not care one way or another when they see the car as a whole and the price is reasonable.

                  Comment

                  • Jan Pritchard

                    #10
                    Re: "As Delivered"

                    You mentioned that it is possible to determine the as-delivered condition of a car from the VIN and Trim Tag. The seller proved no documentation when I purchased my 66 coupe in 1984 and I have always been curious about some of the easier "add-ons" such as the day/night mirror. Which NCRS publication contains this data?

                    Comment

                    • Chuck G.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • May 31, 1982
                      • 2029

                      #11
                      Re: "As Delivered"

                      There is no way to determine options by the VIN number or Trim Tag in your vintage car. The ONLY exception are the Trim Tag ECL codes, mentioned in Noland's book. The ECL codes will tell you if your car had options which required modifications to the standard interior...i.e. power windows would require a door panel without crank holes and a console with holes for the switches, AC would require a dashboard with the AC vent in the center, etc. You cannot tell by the VIN or Trim Tag if your car originally had side exhausts. Chuck
                      1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
                      2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
                      1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod

                      Comment

                      • Jerry

                        #12
                        Re: "As Delivered"

                        Hi Chuck :


                        Did these "ECL" codes carry over into the Sharks ??


                        Thanks


                        Jerry

                        Comment

                        • Jack H.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 1, 1990
                          • 9906

                          #13
                          Re: "As Delivered"

                          Sheldon/Jan -- I think Dennis means 'records' in general and he uses the term 'can determine' loosely. Many senior judges are VERY savvy at detecting owner/dealer inspired side exhaust configuration. This results in a FULL DEDUCTION for the car's exhaust system in an NCRS factory concours judging.


                          From this angle, the addition of side exhuast could 'hurt' the value of the car as it involves patching fiberglass, changing rear valence panel, Etc. to put a through-frame car converted to side exhaust back to it's factory original through-frame configuration later.


                          If one want's a crisp exhaust tone, there are MANY options (all less expensive than adding an after-market N-14 system) to consider. Threads on this exist in the archives and it'd be handy to read what's been said before....


                          The most interesting alternative is from Mid-America. It consists of through-frame pipes that are 'necked down' like those used on the original N-14 factory option. Because there's no side covers or body mods involved, the installation is inexpensive and painless. Plus, this under body/low restriction system puts the exhaust noise at the rear of the car instead of just behind the driver's ear.


                          While side exhaust is exciting for the acoustic value, it get 'old' real fast if you're into touring with the car. The alternatives of aftermarket low restriction pipe/muffler systems get the SOUND portion of the N-14 equation to you reasonably without tinkering with high $$$ factory original components and body/paint modifications.

                          Comment

                          • Jack H.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • April 1, 1990
                            • 9906

                            #14
                            Re: 65sidepipes

                            You 'can' put 'em back, but there's a non-trivial cost associated with the L brackets, the rocker panels, the fiberglass side moldings (and their bond/paint match), as well as the rear valence panel swap.


                            Most of the time when folks 'convert' to N-14 the original pieces are either discarded or get lost over time. So, there's a potential value loss to the concours purist who wants the car in factory original configuration. He/she will see the side exhaust components as having zero value then look beyond to the missing factory original rocker panels, missing factory original press molded color matching rear valence panel, missing rear exhaust bezels, and the expense of bird cage L-bracket re-introduction along with body glass/paint work to put the car back to it's original configuration.


                            Now, the addition of N-14 WILL appeal to the 'driver' market where excitement regardless of authenticity lives. BUT, this market segment does NOT typically open it's wallet quite so wide....

                            Comment

                            • Robert C.
                              Expired
                              • December 1, 1993
                              • 1153

                              #15
                              Re: 65sidepipes

                              I have a 65 coupe with sidepipes. They are not original to the car, but I don't realy care! The only problem is that they are really loud. I have also had the car judged recently and took the deduction. I scored a 92%. More than enough for my prereq. for the founders award. You can have your cake and eat it to! In my experiance, the value of your car will increase approx. $1000, but it will cost you quite a bit more than that to buy the parts etc. Bob

                              Comment

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