Is this the corect dated block

[Calvin C.]

The block I am trying to buy is numbered the following.

Passenger side front TO828CWM 13S402230
casting 3999289
date GM10 1 H15 72

An earlier post by Mike Ward about these numbers said:

This block was cast August 15th 1972 and was assembled August 28th, then found its way into car S/N 2230.
If your car was built less than 6 months after Aug 15th 1972, this block will work from an NCRS Flight point of view.
Hope this helps.

My 1973 car has D22 on the trim plate, so is that is Nov 22? therefore would the above block work. what is the deduct for the wrong block and does a correct date help.

thanks again
cal camara

[Chuck S.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

Cal, I can't find my Judging Reference Manual to confirm this, but if the pad is genuine (not re-stamped), this block will get you the most judging points you can get with a legitimate replacement engine. As I recall, the casting date for the cylinder case must be within the six months (or so) preceding the car's build, and the pad must have original broach marks. After that the two stamps are judged individually, with partial credit being given to each stamp. Since the VIN derivative stamp will have an incorrect serial number, I believe you will get a deduct (12.5 pts?) for that stamp only.

[Jack H.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

NCRS Judging Rules regarding the block are given in the Standard Deduction section of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. If the block is WRONG casting number, wrong casting configuration (a Tonawanda casting when it should be a Saginaw casting), it's a full deduction (350 points).

If that's correct, which is the case here...your '73 BB should have a '289 Tonawanda cast block and that's what you have, you move on into the text of the standard deduction rule which next looks at the casting date. There, the judges look for the casting date to be 0-6 months prior and this block is, so you automatically get half credit (175 points).

Now, the judging focus shifts to the stamp pad. Since the block does NOT match your car's VIN, you loose 50 points.

So, with this block in your car AS IS, expect to get 300/350= 85% originality credit. Suggest if you're seriously restoring this car, you buy the support library components (Judging Guide, Judging Reference Manual) and get a free-to-members Flight Score Sheet from Roy Sinor's office (or via your local chapter judging chairman). Having these as references helps in making those tradeoff decisions along the way!

[Calvin C.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

OK I read in previous posts that some people have restamped pads after the engine block has been decked. I also have heard that if a restamp is done correctly so it appears original that full points are given. Let me say that I have never sold a car with out disclosing everything I know, I couldn't sleep well. But I have had engines decked when rebuilding. If a restamp is completed for show purpose and is disclosed to a judge will they still deduct points. If not is that an option, if they still deduct than it is not worth it because a restamping would only be use as a deception, and I would not do that.

[Michael W.]

Re: Is this the correct dated block

Cal,

As Chuck and Jack have advised, this block will do well in Flight Judging. If you are seriously considering preparing your car for this type of event, you really need to learn all about the judging system before you make major decisions.

Leaving your stamp pad as-is will result in the minor deduction described above. Wiping the pad clean then re-broaching and restamping raises the possibility of a partial/complete deduct if the pad is not done correctly.

Disclosing the history of a car's restoration to the judge prior to judging is not a common occurrence.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

"I also have heard that if a restamp is done correctly so it appears original that full points are given."

You have been given false information: Full points are not given for restamps because they are so good they appear original...full points are inadvertantly given in that situation because the re-stamp is so good it has deceived the judges. It's kind of like bank robbery; you might pull off the robbery successfully, but if you confess later, you WILL be arrested. And, no, you don't get to keep the money.

[Calvin C.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

Well that answers that
cal

[John H.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

The block is allocated 613 points, 88 of which are allocated to the pad (25 for the engine plant stamp, 25 for the VIN, and 38 for the pad appearance/surface). The block you describe, if you just leave it alone, is a good match - correct casting number, correct casting date, and you'll only lose 50 points for the code and VIN stamps. I'd leave it alone.

[Calvin C.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

That sounds good to me. What happens to guys that do have to square a block by decking it, are they out of luck or should they just live with the block not square, it may not make that much differance in performance. I drive all my corvettes and I like the motors to have some snap. I like building cars to original specs even if I do not show them.

thanks again
cal

[Chuck S.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

John, maybe I misinterpreted the JRM, but I thought that the engine plant stamp and the VIN stamp were each alloted half the points. If the car has the manual transmission (CVM:454/4spd/Fed emissions), then the engine plant stamp would be correct. You're saying that if one of the two stamps is incorrect, then you lose all 50 points?

[John H.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

Chuck -

I should have re-read Cal's initial post - his code stamp suffix (CWM) is correct for a '73 454 manual and its date works for his car, so he'd get full credit for the engine plant stamp; he'd only lose 25 points for the VIN (assuming the pad surface looks good for the other 38 points).

[Calvin C.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

OOps my car ia an auto not 4 speed, now how many more points will it lose
cal

[Dick W.]

Re: Is this the corect dated block

Twenty five for a total of fifty. 25 on VIN and 25 on machine code (suffix)