'66 SMALL BLOCK DOUBLE STAMP ENGING PAD

[Rob A.]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

Are you saying that maybe it was stamped without changing the vin# from the previous car? It almost looks like the second stamp has the same #s as the first....who knows. I'm interested in the car, but don't want to put any more time into checking it out without coming to some conclusion, either way, on the originality of the engine.

[Patrick T.]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

I don't get the confusion on this item. When an engine was manufactured at Flint, it was stamped on the right side of the engine pad with V or F depending on the year, with the date and engine code suffix only.

When the engine arrived at St.Louis, when a particular car order called for a "L-79" or others, that engine which had no VIN # stamped on the left side, was not too far away rolling down the line and then it was stamped with the VIN # required. So two separate people at two different locations stamped the pad, no? PT

[Mike McKown]

Re: '66 SMALL BLOCK DOUBLE STAMP ENGING PAD

John:

My book read the same as yours. X out the mis-stamp and then stamp the correct number adjacent to it. I never saw one "X'ed" out but I saw many that had been obscured to the point you couldn't read the wrong number. That was the intent anyway. I have no idea why anyone would fool with a grinder in a situation like that. Most repairmen will quickly find the easiest and fastest way to accomplish a repair. Grinding doesn't seem to fit either criteria to me. I'm not saying it wasn't done, though.

[John H.]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

Yup - engine code was stamped at Flint (or Tonawanda for a BB), and the VIN was stamped at St. Louis, right after the transmission was attached; same guy stamped the engine and transmission with the same gang-stamp.

[Mike M.]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

John: how did the "s" get to be part of the vin der being stamped in the muncie? mike

[Michael H.]

Scan For Rob Axel #2 *NM*

[John H.]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

Mike -

Dunno - must have been an Engineering requirement, possibly to differentiate a Corvette Muncie from a passenger car Muncie (from the big plant next door) in the field just to have the "S" on the transmission VIN and not on the engine; the operator would have had to stamp the engine, then add the "S" die to the gang holder, and stamp the transmission, or he maintained two gang holders - one for the engine and one for the transmission. Other Chevrolet plants used the same gang-stamp for both impressions, with no special character just for the transmission VIN stamp.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Scan For Rob Axel #2

Rob, I believe I would submit it to Al Grennig.

To me, a double-stamp might be understandable given the conditions under which the stamp was made. I would be concerned, however, by what appears to be a slight difference in the size (width) of the font between the leading "6" and the next to last "9". I would expect that character to be exactly the same, only inverted to form the other digit. The leading "6" seems wider (as well as thicker) to me; it could be an optical illusion caused by the over-stamp.

Another concern I have is the fact that the last three digits (597) seem to be completely missing from the "higher" strike...they aren't there; there are NO last three digits that align with the higher stike. The last three digits, WITH NO DOUBLE STRIKE, are clearly aligned with the "lower" stamp. You could dream up a scenario under which that would have occured (I already have), but it would take a really spirited sports/politics/religion discussion to distract the stamper that much.

[Chris H.]

Re: Scan For Rob Axel #2

It looks to me that the stamp gang was held at an angle when first striked, The first digit is deeper than the ones to the right and again the 2nd digit is deeper than the ones to the right, etc. The guy saw his mistake and then quickly restamped at a more perpindicular angle.

Chris

[Chuck S.]

Re: Scan For Rob Axel #2

Chris, that was part of my "scenario".

The stamp should be fully landed on the pad before the hammer is used to pound the blazes out of it. It's possible he had the right side of the gang stamp elevated slightly above the pad surface when he struck it.

Even so, it seems like there should be at least some image of the last three digits. If I look very carefully, I can almost make out some very slight ghost images (maybe it's my imagination ). The photo is not real sharp, and the pad definitely has corrosion.

My first concern would be the apparent difference in font. Maybe it's simply the first two characters' depth that gives the appearance of greater width. Close examination with a dial caliper may help to sort out the mystery.

Dirty Harry: "A man has to know his limitations." Because of my limited experience with pad stamps, I would be inclined to err on the side of safety if I were looking at this car. The pad may be perfectly OK, but consulting an expert wouldn't be a waste of time in my opinion.

[Jack H.]

Come-on fella's....

gang stamp 'hop' and resultant rebound is/was a COMMON issue for both skilled restamp artists as well as factory original, in a hurry to kick production out the door, UAW workers! In fact, the factory original frame stamp on my '65 looks almost identical to this engine pad....

If the gang stamp isn't perfectly parallel to the stamp surface and critically damped, the stamp will try to 'hop' with enough force to create a 'natural' rebound image from the 'hop'....

Now, if the VIN derivate stamp hops and the rebound image winds up being partially covered by the cylinder head position....HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! (cylinder heads were installed when the VIN derivative was stamped at St. Louis but the block was bare when the assy date was stamped at Flint or Tonawanda)

[Chuck S.]

Hank Hill: "Yehhp."

Boomhauer: "Yo...Dang ole pad, Man...Head up...No can do, Man...Fake."

Bill Daughtrie: "Ummm-Hummph". (Sigh)

Dale Gribbel: "The CIA created this stamp pad conspiracy back in the fifties."

Merry Christmas, Uncle Jack.

[Terry M.]

Re: Come-on...indeed

"(cylinder heads were installed when the VIN derivative was stamped at St. Louis but the block was bare when the assy date was stamped at Flint or Tonawanda)"

"cylinder heads were installed when the VIN derivative was stamped at St. Louis" = true

"the block was bare when the assy date was stamped at Flint or Tonawanda" = Not quite. SB (Flint) stamped the pad with the heads on the cylinder case, but BB (Tonawanda) stamped the case before the heads were installed.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Engine # Scan For Rob Axel

John,
From the passenger car 4-speeds I've looked at, starting with '62, most plants stamped the plant designation letter ahead of the VIN derivitive (both on the engine pad and trans). That seems to have been the rule, based on the sample size I've seen. I've recorded several St. Louis passenger 4-speeds that have the "S" stamped on them. One of my own cars, built at Tarrytown, has the VIN derivitive on both the engine and T-10 trans, but without the "T" in both cases, and neither done with a gang holder. Then again, I have seen some original Tarrytown 4-speeds that do have the "T", so obviously the "rule" was not always followed.
Just my observations.
Verne.

[Jack H.]

EXCELLENT clarification, Terry! *NM*