Just wondered if the "job number" on the back of a cyl head was a judged item. Not sure when this stopped but was definitely used in the 60's.
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Is that a repro? *NM*
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Nope, absolutely genuine....
...original as installed at "The Mill" in the 60's. This pic was taken in the late 70's.Comment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
The Winter 1994 edition of the 63/34 Judging Manual makes reference only to the color of the paint on the heads and to the cast markings (single pyramid or double hump, depending on engine option). It gives information on the the casting numbers and date coding but further states that these are not judged because they are not visible.
I cleaned my engine with a detergent and soft brush when I first removed it from the vehicle for rebuilding. I found the job number on the front of both cylinder heads (facing forward). The engine suffix was also on both sides of the cyliner case (upside down in yellow crayon).Comment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Thanks Philip. Typically, the job number is on the rear of the right head and the suffix on the front of one (usually the left) head. I'm a little surprised the JG makes no mention of this code or job number on 63-64 because I've been told it is a judged item on 67, although a sticker instead of hand applied characters.
The suffix on the case would not be visible after the engine is complete and painted but the codes/numbers on the ends of the heads would be over the engine color.Comment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Michael, it was used at least through late '66. I detailed a very low mile 350 horse and it had it. Was it on the engine before the trim line or after it was painted. This engine looked like it was on the cast ironDick WhittingtonComment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Dick,
The job number was put on as the engine was removed from the rack at the Mill. (St. Louis) It was one of the very first things that happened to it as it was being installed on the engine conveyor. Prior to being pulled and numbered, it was just another random engine in the rack. It became vehicle specific at that point.
The engine code, or "suffix", on the front of the head would have been installed at the engine source. (Flint/Tonawanda) It appears to be over the engine paint.Comment
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Here's The rest of the Car....
..with the matching job number. It's completely original/unrestored with only 4334 miles. Note the thin, almost complete absence of blackout on the IP in the area of the job number. It's typical. The target was the vertical surface of the IP and any black that his the angled area of the floor pan was just overspray. Some cars have more than others.
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Re: Here's The rest of the Car....
My '64 has the same yellow crayon marked "177" on the cylinder head. I have not found the other job numbers on the body...yet.Comment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Thanks Michael. I was never sure. On the Star/Bowtie cars the paint is usually very thin or worse. I often wonderedDick WhittingtonComment
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Michael,
I'm attaching some images to this post.
They clearly show that the job number is on the front of both cylinder heads and that the engine suffix is clearly on top of the paint on both sides of the cylinder case. All markings were well preserved by oil and dirt due to leaking valve covers. Much careful cleaning and scrubbing (with soap and water, no solvents) was done to expose these crayon marks. The crayon marks on the left side of the cylinder case can be viewed by placing a mirror between the case and the steering coupler, just below the spark plug ignition shielding. On the right side of the cylinder case it is much more difficult to view, even with a mirror.
The "290" mark on the heads matches my job number found on the rear bulkhead, firewall, both doors and the paper tag attached to my convertible top frame where it mounts to the body on the right side. The crayon marks on the cylinder case is an upside down "SK" which matches my engine suffix. It is on both sides of the case.
Phil
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Re: A Grease Ball *NM*
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Re: Is This A judged Item?
Phil,
It certainly does look as though the job number is on both left and right cylinder heads. I suppose anything is possible and there may be more out there just like yours.
The suffix on the side of the cyl case may look as though it's on top of the engine orange but there would be no reason for it to be there at that point in engine production. It would serve no purpose after the engine were completely assembled and painted orange. The block was assembled upside down and the suffix was on the bare cast iron to inform the assemblers as to which rotating components were to be installed. The reason the yellow paint appears to be on top of the orange today is the fact that the orange did not stick well to the letters and after all these years, has come off. I have a great pic of a block that has been stripped of all it's original orange paint and all that remains is the yellow suffix letters and a few blue paint swabs. (I'll post the pic)
I've owned several new blocks from that era and all had an "S" (service) on the bare cast iron, in the same location that a normal suffix would be.
MichaelComment
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"RF" on Block
Here's a shot of the original RF suffix on a block that has been stripped of all of it's orange paint. The yellow characters are still visible which indicates they were there before the orange engine paint.
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Re: "RF" on Block
Michael,
"The engine code, or "suffix", on the front of the head would have been installed at the engine source. (Flint/Tonawanda) It appears to be over the engine paint".
Why did the engines on the "rack" at the mill came from the assembly plant with the engine code over the paint on the cylinder head? I think possibly so that the engine usage could be readily identified without looking for the small characters stamped on the engine pad. Only a guess as I never worked there and I'm unfamiliar with any proceedures or policies at GM. Isn't it possible that since my cylinder heads did not contain a crayon mark on the cylinder head that during the time my engine was built that the policy was different and they marked the side of the case instead? Otherwise they are left to read the engine pad to determine usage.
There is no doubt in my mind that these crayon marks appear to be over the paint. I did not chemically strip my block, but instead took it to the engine builder who "hot tanked" it. After hot tanking I did have paint splotches (I believe they were light blue in color) left on the case, but the "SK' was gone. I don't have any photo documentation after hot tanking.
The image of the crayon mark on the bare casting on the side of your case appears to be white rather than yellow.
I worked for a large corporation for 30 years and I know that procedures can change almost daily. Sometimes just so the guys that made policy could make it look like they were doing something and justify there jobs. LOL
I'm attaching another image that shows the markings after scrapping and then after washing. They sure don't appear to be under the paint or to have bled through or that the paint simply didn't adhere.
Phil
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