New de-icing

[Stephen W.]

Well if New York road salt was not enough we have a new kid on the block. They are now testing a liquid they spray on the road before the storm to de-ice the road. Magnesium Cloride. They say they are not sure of the enviromental impact? but they are "testing" it on our highways.
Any chemists out there that can guess on the corrosive nature of this stuff?
Right now they are only using it on one small section of highway that I plan on avoiding but next year they will start using it on the interstate.
Anybody heard about this stuff? opinions ?

[Joe L.]

Re: New de-icing

Steve-----

I would expect magnesium chloride to be about the same as sodium chloride as far as propensity to cause corrosion. Both are highly soluble salts that will have very high ionic strength in solution. Also, while a solution of sodium chloride would be nearly neutral in pH, a solution of magnesium chloride should be more acidic (i.e. it's the salt of a strong acid and a weak base). However, I don't think that this property would very greatly increase its propensity to induce long-term corrosion damage.

As far as toxicity is concerned, magnesium chloride is, for all practical purposes, non-toxic as is, of course, sodium chloride.

[Clem Z.]

Re: New de-icing

i think they are using these products because salt does not work at lower temps

[Stephen W.]

Re: New de-icing

Thanks Joe ... Clem is on the right track too. They mentioned it would stay on the road longer when applied correctly and remain "wet" . The key was how and when to apply it. We have a snow and ice storm on its way here tonight but they didn't get it on the road at the right time so they can't use it for this storm. The temp range has to be right and the roads have to be dry when applied. It also costs about .84 a gallon.

[Dick W.]

Re: New de-icing

We'uns down here in the South have had the brine solution for several years now. Other than the corrosion problems that all de-icing products cause, it seems to be a good product. Put down prior to the snow or ice falling it keeps the roads in decent shape until the temp drops below about 22 deg F.

[Rob Dame]

Re: New de-icing

It doesn't sound too promising for the utility companies




Magnesium Cloride

[John D.]

Re: New de-icing

They've been using this stuff in Colorado the past several years and I hate it! It may make for less slick roads but the stuff is highly corrosive to unpainted suspension parts. I drive a newer model GMC pickup in the winter and some of the chrome on the grille and mirrors has been permanently spotted after only a couple of episodes. I now wash it off the chrome as soon as I get it in the garage. It's also difficult to clean off the car although I haven't noticed any effect on 2 stage paint. Makes a dirty mess of the garage floor too. I've also recently read in the local paper where some beieve it is killing off the trees that line I-70 west of Denver.

[Craig S.]

Re: New de-icing

They use this in Tucson on the bridges in the winter if you can believe it. What a crock....as if the occasional dip below freezing here is a hazard with sweating and freezing bridges with our low humidity. Bad enough in northern climates, but come on, in Tucson?

Fortunately it is rarely damp and stays dry. In think it is all instgaged by "The Eagle" law offices etc....ambulance chasers....Craig

[Terry F.]

Re: New de-icing

Interesting question. It is propably no worse than sodium cloride with regard to corrosion. I think Joe touched on the Ph part of it a bit. I think you could look up the electro chemistry of it and get a good idea on how it would behave. A general chemisty book would have it in it. But toxicity is a trick question. More than likely it is an industrial biproduct that is being sold cheap. It is probably 99.39% pure and the rest is heavey metals that nobody takes the time to figure out. That it the stuff I would worry about in the environment. It accumulates in the environment and it is difficult to get rid of. Terry

[Chuck R.]

Re: New de-icing

I also saw the news report on the latest "wonder" product last night Stever. "Wonder what it does?" is more like it!

They push a product called "Magic" up my way that's a protien based by-product from what I'm told, brewing beer. Smells it too

It's supposed to be so safe that you could actually drink it and it won't harm you...........any takers to see if it's all they claim? Not on my OR your life!!!

I don't care what it is and how safe they say it is, if it's used in any sizable quantity, it's corrosive, period!

I'm thinking of heading Mr. Whittington's way Yall.

Did I say it right Dick

[Jack H.]

Yep, it's been here for about 3-year now....

Colorado has LONG had laws banning the use of salt (NaCl) on the roadways as an environmental concern. Strange, since our mountain neighbors in Utah, make HEALTHY use of the stuff that's in abundance around St. Lake City....

The 'mag' leaves a healthy white 'scum' on the car's exterior and a number of the quarter car wash shops now have a special setting on the dial for 'mag' removal. It doesn't seem to have a negative impact on cars (no appreciable increase in exhaust system replacement) beyond 'cruding up' exposed moving part areas like brakes.

On 'mag' being the source of killing trees adjacent to the highways, I gotta believe that's an old wife's tale! I live 1/2-mile off I-70 in foothills to the west of Denver (7930 feet high) and the 'browing' of pine trees was a problem/issue LONG before the use of mag on the highways. They're affected primarily by beetle kill, lack of artificial irrigation + drought conditions and root paths extending beneath the road surface and denying them water.... I see the same roadside 'browing' of pine trees along secondary roads that do NOT get 'mag' as the primary thoroughfares.

Anyway, you can expect to see a proliferation of 'mag' as an alternative to traditional salt since it's been 'pioneered' out this way in the environmental friendly State that first adopted on a wide scale basis that anti-pollution windfall; oxygenated gasoline! PS, it's not as good as traditional salt at melting snow/ice under really cold ambient temperatures....

[Donald M.]

Re: New de-icing

Road salt is just one of many reasons we moved to SW Fla. One too many New England winters is what caused two brake lines to blow in the last year on my wife's '96 Blazer. Luckily, I was driving both times. Both lines were badly corroded.

[Dick W.]

Re: New de-icing

Ya'll Chuck. BTW Mr. Whittington (both Sr and Jr) passed away in 1989. I am just plain ole Dick

[John G.]

Re: New de-icing

Once, when President Nixon was in office he was invited to tour a water treatment plant. When told that the finished process produced a water of drinkable quality he was asked if he would like a glass. "I never drink water in the morning", was the reply.

John

[Chuck R.]

Re: Thanks for the clarification Dick

In 1980 I spent a week in South Carolina helping to move a Gent to Maine.

When I got back, everyone got a big kick out of my Southern drawl.

Infectous to say the least ....... Kinda right up there with Ayuh!

Ya'll have a nice, warm and sunny day Dick.

Chuckster