Duke - Squirrelly steering

[Timothy B.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

OK, I am posting some photos of my two a-arms showing the shim stackup. Drivers side is on the top. The rear shim stack on the drivers side has .32 inches of shims (3 of them) and none in the front. On the passengers side, the rear as .56" shims and the front has only one shim at .15".

On my drive today I was able to further evaluate the centering feel. I definitely have a centering effect and the steering is tight. I am wondering if I have excessive "drag" or friction in my steering linkage somewhere. I mentioned in a different post that I have a new and VERY stiff idler arm. When driving at around 50 or so tracking straight on a level road, I feel as though to turn left or right I have to put a decent amount of force into the wheel to get a reaction by the car, and when that happens it feels like it sort of "jumps" to that position. I can rock the wheel back and forth and the car doesn't really respond at all, and then put just a bit more force into the wheel and then it reacts allot. It doesn't feel like there is an "in between". I think that is why it was feeling what I called "squirrelly", since it is difficult to make really small corrections and have the car respond. I have to put in more force and then the car over responds.

I am probably over-describing this as the condition is not really bad at all. I tried the same testing in a different late model car today also and the steering is much "lighter" to the touch and the centering effect takes it back right to where it started. In the Vette it is not that way, requiring more force to have a response and while it does have centering effect, it doesn't take the car back to dead straight. I know of course the cars are different but I was just comparing.

I wonder how much resistance the power steering cylinder has against turning while cruising at 50 or so? I was thinking of disconnecting my power steering cylinder and jacking up the front of the car to see what the steering feels like. I think it should be light right, with nothing to resist? At that speed power steering should basically be doing nothing since the forces should be too low to cause the valve to react.

Thanks for all the useful inputs!

[Gerard F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Tim,

I think your post got a little bit off track so to speak. I have basically the same system you have on my 67 and here's my alignment specs:

Front camber 0 degrees both wheels
front caster +2.75 both wheels
front toe-in 1/16" total 1/32" each side

With the above I have no problem with centering or the jerking you describe. The reason for the more positive camber is to make it harder to turn the wheels with power steering and for better tracking and centering. At high speed with little movement of the wheel, you should be reverting to manual steering, thus the feel. I have never had the jerking you describe since they changed the steering rods to the front lugs. I think you may have something else loose, or your power steering valve or pump has got a problem.

You didn't install that rear stablizer per chance. I chucked both the new front and rear, and went back to my original front stabilizer with the 460# springs and polyurethane bushings. The steering is quick but not jerky, and it took some getting used to after driving with manual for many years.

Hope this helps.

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Bill Jackson]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

I'd check the lash adjustment on the steering box. I had a 63 that acted a bit like that. The PO had it adjusted too tight. I backed it off and it is fine now.

[Duke W.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

You can stack shims until the studs shows 2 threads, which is the generally accepted amount that a bolt should "cover" a nut or stud.

Based on the photos the RH side rear stud appears to be fully loaded, so this may be the limiting factor in the adjustment. Take the shim out of the front then set the LH side as close as possible to the RH readings There is room for more shims on LH both studs to increase postive caster and increase negative camber.

When you rebuilt your steering box did you set the worm bearing preload and total preload to the specs in the '63 Corvette Shop Manual(or a later CSM)? I cannot overemphasize the need to set the steering box up IAW the specs if you want good steering system performance and feel.

I still can't make any sense out of your symptoms. You say the "steering is tight", and then later say "I can rock the steering wheel back and forth and the car doesn't respond at all". These statements conflict!

Your alignment is not far enough "off" to create a significant problem, though both the camber and caster and right to left difference can be improved upon what you have now.

I think that you may have a problem somewhere else in the steering. I suspect the steering gear unless you can convince me that the preloads were properly established. The "stiff" idler are could also be an issue as could any wear/slop in any other steering system components like tire rod ends.

Also, the PS could be a "problem" though I have no experience with that old linkage booster Corvette PS system.

Duke

[Timothy B.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Yes, I can see why some of my descriptions are confusing. By "tight" I mean that in every other condition other that simply driving straight down the road the car is responsive and I don't notice any slop in the steering. Prior to my front end work and other steering work it did not feel tight in any driving condition.

Regarding the gear box rebuild, I followed the overhaul manual for a 67, best I could. It was however the first time I had tried that. Some other checks that I have read about in posts show that the gear is tight inside.

Tonight I disconnected the PS cylinder and checked out the steering turning forces with the front end off the ground and I would say that they are normal, and not excessive. I think my idler arm has loosened itself up on it's own since I installed it last year, and doesn't appear to be a contributor.

Next, I noticed that as I carefully rotate the steering wheel left and right and watch the left front tire (wheels still off the ground and reaching through the open door), that I can turn the wheel a few degrees left without the tire responding!! When I try the same to the right the tire responds much quicker. What I discovered is that there is significant and un-even (left to right) play between the PS control valve to pitman arm stud and the relay rod. I don't know what is normal here, since this thread is getting pretty long I think I will post a new message specifically on this topic. I know also there are differences in the spring of the valve on a Corvette vs. other cars of the era, so I am hoping someone knowledgeable can chime in.

[Terry F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Your alignment settings seem more realistic for street driving. Terry

[Terry F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Did you use a deflextion type torque wrench to set the drag on the steering box?
Terry

[Timothy B.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

As I recall I used a Snap-On inch-lb dial tyle torque wrench.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Well, as it turns out I had a bit too much toe-in in the front - I guess you can't count on the machines getting it right. I used the string technique to double check the toe-in front and rear, and the front was almost a 1/4". One half turn of the right side adjustment sleeve brought it to 1/16" per side, which is still slightly high but I wanted to drive it and see if I could feel an improvement. Sure enough I can. The car is more responsive about the center position. The "squirrelliness" is not noticeable now.

The rear toe-in was about what the shop said it was, within the accuracy of my measurements. I plan on going back to the shop again in the next few weeks and I will see what they say it starts out at...

[Terry F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

Duke,

I had an idea about wheel dollies. Could a person use them instead of skid plates for doing a front/rear end alignment? They would give you more clearance for getting under the car and alow the wheels to move with adjustments. What do you think? Terry

[Duke W.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

If you're taking about "Go-Jacks" or equivalent, no! You have to jack the car up to install them and tread squirm will cause the suspension to bind as you let it down and it will not settle to normal ride height.

Alignment machines set the wheels on bearings so the contact patch can move freely when you change a setting.

My Cosworth Vega and Mercedes have cam bolts on the lower control arms, so I have to roll them back and forth to work out the tire scrub when the settings are changed since it's the spacial position of the lower ball joint I'm changing.

On a C2/3 Corvette you are moving the upper joint while the lower joint remains fixed in space, so there is little no tire scrub to deal with, but once you've got the settings to where you want, you should roll the car back and forth a few times and push up and down on the bumper, then recheck.

Also you don't need to get under a Corvette to change the settings. You do this above with shims in the upper control arm mounting studs. On the CV and Merc I do have to get under the car to move the lower control arm cam bolts.

A Corvette alignment job is much easier on the back!

Duke

[Terry F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

I was thinking about those role around coasters that slike under the tires. I see what you mean be adjusting camber from the top side but adjusting the toe in and rear camber would be more difficult without a little clearance. I enjoy doing the work myself.

I have decided to try and make my own camber gauge out of a couple of pieces of aluminum and string. I was doing some figuring and I think I can make a pretty good tool that would be reliable and easy to make. I would use a piece of thread with a weight on it for a pendulum.

Thanks for the responce, Terry

[Duke W.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

For about 20 bucks you can buy a decent inclinometer at Sears or most any hardware store. That's what I use - and a good carpenters tape for toe.

Duke

[Terry F.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

I have never seen a inclinometer. Does it have a fluid bubble in it? Terry

[Duke W.]

Re: Duke - Squirrelly steering

It's a dial gage that measures degrees on a linear base - looks like and antique clock - just go to Sears, Home Depot, or any hardware store and take a look at one.

You lay it against the wheel flange or tire sidewall to measure camber.

Duke