Another paint question....or two

[Greg L.]

Has anyone heard of using just the base coat and polishing it to simulate a lacquer finish? The reason I ask is because I just found out tonight that a guy at work did this to his BMW years ago and I never would have guessed it! The car always looks super clean and bright and I just assumed that it was original paint. What I'm getting at is if this will work, it might just be the "next best thing to real lacquer". Any thoughts? Any judges want to comment on my theory?

Also,what is so undurable about lacquer? Is it because it fades, cracks, chips easy, or what?

One last one. Where in North America can you still buy lacquer auto paint? If the base coat only theory is a flop I just might be looking for a couple of gallons of cortez silver for my 69.

Thanks all.

[Don Izzo]

Re: Another paint question....or two

I don't think what your friend did was to use base coat and then polish it. I have found that BASE COAT is applied very thin,just 2-3 coats to provide color coverage then clear coat is applied to preserve the colorcoat from scratches, uv etc. More likely what your friend did was to use a urethane single stage product, which doesn't require the application of the clear coat the way the BC/CC paint systems do. You can color sand and polish the single stage paints just like lacquer.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

It could be done in the jams but the transition from the body to the jams would be difficult. I dont think that buffing it would be feasible though. You would also have to reasearch which brand of base coat to use. Base coat systems have flatners added to them so they come out flat. Some are very flat, like Dupont, some are not. You could get the supplier to leave the flatner out of the mixture or use single stage in the jams.

[Eugene B.]

Re: Answer to question 3.

Greg,
Regarding your question about where to obtain acrylic lacquer in North America. I live in Columbus, Ohio and there is a PPG provider that told me that obtaining their lacquer was no problem. I would imagine that a PPG dealer in your area can provide same.

Good luck,
Gene

[Kevin Riel]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Another issue you would have with just using the base coat of a BC/CC system is that you would have very little UV protection for the color. It would most likely fade rapidly. Most all of the UV protection in a BC/CC system comes from the clear coat.

Kevin Riel

[Terry D.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Gene is right, getting lacquer in Ohio is not a problem yet. You can order online from www.themotorcompany.com they have any size you want and will even put it in an aerosal can.
Terry

[Dick W.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Another source for lacquer would be AutoColor Library at the link below

http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=aclgate.bbx

[Greg L.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Thanks for the info guys. I'll talk to this guy at work and get his first hand info on what he did. It seems that the more I try to learn about which paint to use on my car, the more confused I get. At least I'm learning!

[Dick W.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Greg another point is that the color that you have will be real hard to not overdo. The silver particles in the mixing colors are different from what was used in 1969. Try to find an original area, that has not been repainted, on your car and use this for a reference. As I have said before, inside of doors, under kick panels, under weatherstrips, etc are good starting points. Lotsa Luck

[Greg L.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

Thanks Dick, I think I'll need it!

What do you mean by "real hard to not over do"? Do you mean the amount of flakes in the paint? Maybe I should look for someone with a high scoring cortez silver car and find out how they tackled this whole paint issue...would you know anyone like this?

Thanks again.

[Dick W.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

The Cortez Silver, in my opinion, did not have a lot of metalic in it. To me, unless you were close, it almost looked like a gray color. Maybe this is not a good descripition, but I do not know any other way to describe it. The silvers today, again in my opinion, have a more visible metalic, larger flakes maybe? Bill Williamson or Wayme Womble could speak more to this thought as they are professional painters. Most metalic cars that I have seen have a paint job that looks way overdone. Solid colors you can work with to tone them down, but metalic takes a painter with a lot of skill.

I probably would shoot several test panels and compare with the original paint areas on my car before I painted it all over.

[Tracy C.]

One of the tricks to minimizing the effect

of metalic paints is to shoot it heavy and wet. To Dick's point, this requires a skilled painter to load up the paint thickness to the point where it's ready to run....but doesn't. Riding this edge consistantly over every panel of the car requires alot of talent.

I learned this on the first metalic job I shot. Not because I was trying, but just because it is how I normally shoot solid colors. The finished product wasn't very good,(blotchy might be a accurate decription) but because it was my mother's car and the price was right, she didn't complain too much.

tc

[John C.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

All PPG jobbers still sell lacquer paint. Dupont no longer sells the binder
which is used in mixing the paint. My dupont jobber only has black what is on shelf.

UNDERCOAT - what type of primer has been applied to the upcoming paint job??

Dupont URO prime, Dupont 2K urethane primer along with their sealers which are all top of the line products.Do not recommend Lacquer as a top coat.
So if this is what has been used as a primer best talk with your painter.

This is also true with the PPG primers and sealer with one exception.
Which is a product called DPLF Expoxy primer (DP90)
PPG's Product information sheet stats (DP90) can be top coated with lacquer.

Have used this product in the past great product, but not top coated by lacquer.
I do have a job coming up that that has dupont 2k primer on it.
Will test this on deck lid before the rest of the body.
Another thing to consider in painting with lacquer is the type of thinnner.
In other words fast dry thinner, mid temp, slow dry like pnt 90.
The fast dry will not penetrate as deeply as something slow such as pnt90.

Single Stage enamel polished right will give a lacquer appearance.

John

[Dick W.]

Re: Another paint question....or two

John, I have shot lacquer over the old DP-90, I have not the new DPLF. I have also reduced DP and used it as a sealer prior to painting. As you stated the thinners make all the difference, no matter what primer and or sealer you are using. A "hot" slow drying will penetrate the substrates and have a tendency to bring body work, seams, any flaw in the glass to the top.

[Chuck R.]

Re: About those sand sealers

In my old body shop days (I'm talking 70s here), we dealt with sand scratches re-surfacing and paint shrinkage making for one butt ugly finished product that ended up as a "Do Over"

Do over translated = "Hey Chuck bring it back in and take it all off"

To this day I barely have finger prints from all the hand/block sanding

OK, my question is this, is there a cure period for the sealer before paint is applied to avoid any potential sub-base issues? Or can you just shoot the paint as soon as you like?

This new technology stuff is down right mind bogglin

Maybe I'll just Trailer Queen the ole girl down to your place Dick when it's ready so you can keep me on the beam.

Room on/under your porch for a temporary boarder? Heck, I'll even mow Your lawn!!

Chuck