The weather was good. Now for what I saw and heard. Can we figure out a way where safety/common sense win out over originality? I was observing as a C3 was being judged today. It was a very nice car that had been recently "completed". The poor guy was not able to finish having his car judged. Reason? It would not start. It was later determined that the coil was bad. The coil (270) is no longer made so the fellow had restored (ie painted up an old one including filling dents on it etc). Common sense has it that performance is affected here and I am willing to bet that more than a handful of NCRS "top flight" cars out there have this problem. A cracked tower or break in the windings will result in a car that will not start or (more likely) will not perform when you get on it. I saw so many of these "repainted" coils for sale and at high prices. You only need to log on to ebay to see others. It seems like NCRS could come up with a list of suitable (US made only perhaps)equivalents where no originality points would be lost for a very finite number of key components on each teams year. Second observation: Euros! They were there and they were buying corvettes. I saw it at this show and you have probably seen it. Okay I'm a little jealous of their autobahn but thats where it ends. The Euro is up against the Dollar but only because the US continues to pull the weight around the globe. But I digress--people if possible keep these cars here! Sheesh. Third observation: Subjectivity. There is a whole bunch of it during the judgings. I saw at least 3 instances where the judges were grading on subjectivity. If you say the stitching on a convertible top is too long than it should be in the manual and/or written somewhere by GM etc. I measured with a caliper the Al Knoch stitching versus a survivor car---the result was the same. Sorry for the post length, did I mention the weather was good? Oh, did anyone see the cut away L88? Very handy from a restoration perspective.
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Re: Observations from Orlando
what about those repo coils? anyone had good luck with them? I see them in catalogs for sell. I think they are all new except the top part an it is used. I would like to know how well they work? -
Re: Observations from Orlando
what about those repo coils? anyone had good luck with them? I see them in catalogs for sell. I think they are all new except the top part an it is used. I would like to know how well they work?Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charlie, sounds like you should have been Judging. Gary #5895Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charlie, sounds like you should have been Judging. Gary #5895Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles The Al Knoch stitching on his C-3 tops at the back and above the window extends forward an inch or more than a original top. It was this way on the last top I bought and may have been what was different. LyleLyle
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles The Al Knoch stitching on his C-3 tops at the back and above the window extends forward an inch or more than a original top. It was this way on the last top I bought and may have been what was different. LyleLyle
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles,
Original Delco Remy #270 coils (and many other numbers) in working condition are quite available to those who seek them out. Coils have a very long service life if not abused. My guess is that literally thousands of NCRS cars have sucessfully gone through and passed OPS checks and PV's with original Delco ignition coils. I don't know much about so called "restored" coils but personally can't grasp the concept that an oil filled coil can be internally restored. Recently GM Reproduction has hit the market with aftermarket coils with virtually all the Corvette numbers but they are far from correct in external appearance. My guess is they may work fine in non TI cars but Corvettes with transistor ignition may have some problems. Maybe the car that didn't start had a rebuilt or GM reproduction coil and if it have a nice tested original coil the problem may have not occurred. Do you know.???Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles,
Original Delco Remy #270 coils (and many other numbers) in working condition are quite available to those who seek them out. Coils have a very long service life if not abused. My guess is that literally thousands of NCRS cars have sucessfully gone through and passed OPS checks and PV's with original Delco ignition coils. I don't know much about so called "restored" coils but personally can't grasp the concept that an oil filled coil can be internally restored. Recently GM Reproduction has hit the market with aftermarket coils with virtually all the Corvette numbers but they are far from correct in external appearance. My guess is they may work fine in non TI cars but Corvettes with transistor ignition may have some problems. Maybe the car that didn't start had a rebuilt or GM reproduction coil and if it have a nice tested original coil the problem may have not occurred. Do you know.???Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Disagree. A judge needs to have a basic understanding of how the system works before he hits the field. To do otherwise performs a disservice to the owner of the car.
This particular owner had the goal of finding a coil that both appeared correct and functioned properly. If he was unable to find one that statisfied both requirements, he could have chosen one criteria over the other. If he chose appearance over function, then the ops part of the judging process would suffer extensively. If function was chosen over appearance, then a deduct would be made during the mech. part of the judging. The deduct for an incorrect coil is minor compared to not being able to start the car for the ops part. If the coil just happened to die right then and there, well that's just really bad luck but the same can happen to any component - even to brand new ones right out of the box. There again, an owner can put the car put through Flight Judging as many times as he wants , I suppose until he achieves the results he wants.
The idea of issuing a list of incorrect substitute parts that would be excused from judging defeats the whole purpose, IMHO.
We won't get into the issue of 'made in USA' or why your dollar is weak against most other foreign currencies. That's what high school economics 101 is for.Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Disagree. A judge needs to have a basic understanding of how the system works before he hits the field. To do otherwise performs a disservice to the owner of the car.
This particular owner had the goal of finding a coil that both appeared correct and functioned properly. If he was unable to find one that statisfied both requirements, he could have chosen one criteria over the other. If he chose appearance over function, then the ops part of the judging process would suffer extensively. If function was chosen over appearance, then a deduct would be made during the mech. part of the judging. The deduct for an incorrect coil is minor compared to not being able to start the car for the ops part. If the coil just happened to die right then and there, well that's just really bad luck but the same can happen to any component - even to brand new ones right out of the box. There again, an owner can put the car put through Flight Judging as many times as he wants , I suppose until he achieves the results he wants.
The idea of issuing a list of incorrect substitute parts that would be excused from judging defeats the whole purpose, IMHO.
We won't get into the issue of 'made in USA' or why your dollar is weak against most other foreign currencies. That's what high school economics 101 is for.Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles, the C3 you referenced did not start due a problem with the points, which was remidied by a fellow member. Furthermore, isn't judging subjective by definition?Comment
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Re: Observations from Orlando
Charles, the C3 you referenced did not start due a problem with the points, which was remidied by a fellow member. Furthermore, isn't judging subjective by definition?Comment
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safety related items should be exempt
For my 1969's, replacement brake hoses have no point deduction because they are a safety related item.
WHAT ABOUT TIRES?
The NCRS deducts points on tires. We are CRAZY to encourage anyone to drive around on original 20 to 50 year old tires! If one of those tires blows at speed, you're lucky if only the car gets hurt. The Corvette passengers and other innocent drivers on the road could easily be killed.
There should be an article in the Corvette Restorer showing how to remove DOT codes from the repro tires so that members could have safe tires on their cars.Comment
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safety related items should be exempt
For my 1969's, replacement brake hoses have no point deduction because they are a safety related item.
WHAT ABOUT TIRES?
The NCRS deducts points on tires. We are CRAZY to encourage anyone to drive around on original 20 to 50 year old tires! If one of those tires blows at speed, you're lucky if only the car gets hurt. The Corvette passengers and other innocent drivers on the road could easily be killed.
There should be an article in the Corvette Restorer showing how to remove DOT codes from the repro tires so that members could have safe tires on their cars.Comment
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