CE Engine block

[Andy Abbagnaro]

My 69 has a CE engine block, I have heard several theories on this. Warrenty replacement, or used during a GM strike. Does anybody have the scoop on this?

[Joe L.]

Re: CE Engine block

Andy------

Most likely a warranty replacement block or engine from early in the car's life, before the "CE" engine designation system was discontinued. It's also possible that it's an over-the-counter engine that was purchased and installed for other than warranty replacement reasons.

What it's not is a PRODUCTION engine installed when the car was built, during a strike or otherwise. I've never heard of any documented case in which a "CE" coded engine was installed in PRODUCTION. Almost by definition, a "CE" coded engine is a SERVICE engine.

What are the casting dates on the block and cylinder heads? That may help dispel any notion that it could have been installed in PRODUCTION.

[Gregory G.]

Re: CE Engine block

I also have a CE block in my May 1970 vette. It was a factory replacement dated Feb 1971. I am interested in your block casting date and the full stamp number that begins with CE. Please post them. I also think there is a web site that is collecting this info to get a handle casting dates vs ce number sequence. I contacted the Chev dealer where my vette was purchased to see if they had any info on the replacement, but their records did not go back that far.

Thanks

[Joe M.]

Re: CE Engine block

In 1969 I requested and purchased a 1966 spec 327/350 short block from the local chevy dealer. The front pad was stamped CE9 29367.

[Kurt B.]

Re: CE Engine block

I also have a spare CE engine block that I would like to know more about.
I purchased it new from local Chevy dealer in the seventies before I had any knowledge of what I was buying. Casting # is 3970010, date code is K254 and it is stamped CE5N25983.
I thought I was buying a 327 motor. What did I really get? Is it a 327 or a 350?
I seem to recall it has a 4 bolt main. Does it have any value as it is taking up space in my garage?
Kurt Bunting # 26406

[John H.]

Re: CE Engine block

"CE" 5/50 warranty replacements were generally furnished as short-blocks, with other parts to be transferred from the failed engine, although the "CE" designation was also applied to engine assemblies and "fitted blocks" (block and ringed pistons & pins, no crank or rods). They were ordered by part number from a chart so the "innards" would match those of the failed engine, but that part number didn't show anywhere on the short block - only on the shipping paperwork; the only way to determine the innards of a "CE" block is to tear it down. The first digit after the "CE" is the calendar year, and the rest of the number is the sequential number of "CE" engines manufactured that year by that particular engne plant. Blocks of numbers were pre-assigned to each engine plant:

Flint Motor (L-6 engines) got 00001 thru 19999
Flint V-8 got 20000 thru 49999
Tonawanda got 50000 thru 79999

[Joe L.]

Re: CE Engine block

Kurt----

As John mentions, the part number for the block you have will be found nowhere on the engine, itself. However, it should be on the crate and/or the original sales receipt. With that number, I might be able to tell you what it is.

The GM casting #3970010 was never used for any PRODUCTION 327 cid engine. For PRODUCTION, this casting was used for 302 (late 1969) and late 1969 through 1980 350s. For SERVICE, it's not inconceivable that a 3970010 block could have been used for a 327. Using a 1968 327 crank and pistons in a 3970010 block would yield a 327 engine. While it's possible, I HIGHLY doubt that it would have been done. It's especially doubtful if it would have been done using a 4 bolt main version of the 3970010 block. No PRODUCTION 327 ever used 4 nolt mains and I highly doubt that any SERVICE 327 engine would have been built using 4 bolt mains. The 3970010 block was manufactured with both 2 and 4 bolt main versions, so a 2 bolt main version would have been available if GM wanted to build a SERVICE 327 engine using the 3970010 block.

The date on this block would indicate that it was cast on November 25, 1974 and that's very interesting to me. I purchased a similar 300/350 partial engine (short block) assembly in mid-1975 with a 1975 casting date on the block and 3970010 casting number. This block had NO stampings on the pad, at all. So, the "CE" stampings must have been discontinued sometime between the date of this engine and mid-1975 when I bought mine.

My guess is that you have a 350 cid short block. I'll be able to tell you more with the part number found on the crate or receipt, though. My guess is that you'll find part number 3970655 (by far, the most likely), 3970653, 3997466, or 6259466.

[Jim T.]

Re: CE Engine block

Kurt you mentioned value on your K254 dated block. It would be of value to someone having a 75 Vette and needing a better matching numbers block to have their car judged. Having the CE5N25983 on the engine would be a deduct, but having an engine with a better casting date and correct casting number for their 75 Vette.
I have a CE (Chevrolet Engine) block in my 70 due to my orignal engine being destroyed within 15 minutes of me leaving the dealership with my brand new Corvette. My CE engine has a CEOA47538 stamping. The original engine was a V0702CTG. The replacement CE block is dated D260, which is April 26,1970. This date is before my car was built, so should lose only points for the front deck stamping if judged.
Put your spare engine in the Driveline or E-BAY and get some money to get your 68 painted.

[Gregory G.]

Re: CE Engine block

I have a 1970 with a CEA136583 number casting date Feb 20, 1971. I never heard of having a A after the CE. What does the A stand for? Someone said it was for Jan, but the casting date is Feb.

[Kurt B.]

Re: CE Engine block

Joe,
I destroyed the crate long ago but probably have the receipt somewhere if I can ever find it. It sounds from your reply that even though I asked the dealer for a 327 with 350 horsepower that they may have sold me a 350/350. Is this shortblock worth $5, $50, or is it useless?
By the way, we received 12 inches of snow today and the fireplace in the pub of the Wayside Inn was quite cozy. When are you coming out again,
Kurt

[Joe L.]

Re: CE Engine block

Kurt-----

Oh, I wouldn't throw it away. Depending upon which short block that it is, I'd say that it's worth a minimum of $750-1,000 IF it can still be rotated by hand. If it's frozen, it would be worth a less.

Also, assuming that you purchased it around 1974 or 1975, the 1968 L-79 short block was still available at that time. So, there's no reason that they would had to have substituted a 69+ 350. If you can come up with the part number, that will "tell the tale".

If you can't find the receipt (which would be the absolutely BEST thing as it would remove all uncertainty), then you could check out a few other things on the engine. First, look to see if it has pop-up style ("domed") pistons or if the pistons are flat-top with 4 "eye brow" valve reliefs. Second, measure the distance from the deck surface of the block to the top of the flat portion of one of the pistons at bottom dead center (BDC). You may have to rotate the engine to get one of the pistons at BDC (which you should do anyway to check for its condition as described above). However, if one of the pistons is seen at top dead center (piston flat surface virtually "even" with the block deck surface), then one of the other pistons HAS TO BE at BDC. The one that's the lowest is the one at BDC.

You might also check to confirm if it has 4 bolt mains, or not, too.

I'll be back to the northeast this summer, probably in later June-early July and/or in mid-August, or so. As cozy as the Wayside Inn might be now, you generally won't find me in the east when there's "white stuff" on the ground. Here in the west, I only have to drive about 3 hours east to see all I want and I NEVER do that.

[Kurt B.]

Thanks Joe *NM*

[Kurt B.]

Re: CE Engine block

Joe,
I found reference in my archives to a part number 3933044 which is not one of the numbers you listed. Does this part number mean anything to you?
Thanks,
Kurt

[Joe L.]

Re: CE Engine block

Kurt-----

Yes, it does. GM #3933044 is the part number for the 1968-only L-79 partial engine assembly (short block). So, if that's what you have, then, apparently, the 3970010 block was used for SERVICE 327 engine assemblies. There's no reason that the 3970010 block could not have been used for 327 cid engines, even though it was never used in PRODUCTION for such applications. By 1974, the 3970010 might have been the only 4 inch bore block which GM had available, so if they were going to continue availablility of 327 SERVICE engines, they would have had to use this block.

It would still be interesting to to confirm the piston head configuration, stroke, and main bearing bolt configuration if the engine is, at all, accessible as you have it stored.

If it is a GM #3933044, then it would contain the 68-only L-79 crankshaft that you were once seeking-----a brand new one.

[John H.]

Re: CE Engine block

There were numerous inconsistencies/anomalies in how "CE" blocks were stamped during their run, especially at Flint V-8, with added alpha characters and out-of-assigned-sequence numbers which remain a mystery. My '69 Z/28 has a 3970010 "CE" block (stamped CE0A965 0 9) installed in July, 1970 (along with one new 186 head cast in May '70 - must have gone out in a real blaze of glory ).