I need to stripe the paint from my 62. What is the best method? DIY recently aired a show that suggested a media blast. However, most people I have spoke to recommend chemical striper. Any help would be appreciated.
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See "Shade Treee Stripping project" Below
Steve, I asked almost the same question earlier, look about 4 threads down and see the wonderful responses I received. Good luck...Doug 42330 -
Re: C2 Paint Removal
I wouldn't use any method that I didn't have personal control over. I guess that says something about me. I have never done media blasting nor paid anyone to do it, just read a lot of the posts regarding it. I wouldn't use it. Very slow process and cost too much and too much risk involved if not done by experienced individual. I recently started to strip my 68. I tried the DA on a few spots and found that it did not give me enough control. Then I went to chemical striper made for fiberglass. At first I was horrified and wondered what I got into. Then, I got used to the pace and the paint came off very fast.
When using the stripper you need to be patient. The stuff I am using is thick and sticks to the horizontal surfaces. I get about 2 or 3 areas going at the same time on the car. I slowly and carefully brush it on thick and then move to the next area. By the time I get back to the first area it is ready to scrape off. Unless you have very little paint on the car you will not get all the paint off with one application. Base coat clear coat is tough stuff and so is some of the newer primers. I used a plastic spatula in most in some places to scrape it off. In other places I used a well worn putty knife especially in base coat clear coat areas and epoxy primer areas. When using a metal putty knife be very careful when you get close to the original primer or fiberglass. But, I found that it was not difficult to control. I cover the tires and have painters tarps on the floor under the areas I am working in. I scrape all the goop onto the tarps. At the end of the day I pull the tarps outside and let it dry. Next day it is usually all dried up and cracks off the tarp and I sweep it up and put it in the trash. Then I start over again. If you take your time and are careful it is easy to control and the progress is fast and rewarding. The hard part is getting the initial coat of original primer off the car. I suggest putting the paint stripper on and letting it sit a long time then scrape as much off as possible. While it is still soft use a scratch pad and laqure thinner.
In the tight corners I blob on the stripper and get things real soft. Then I wipe it off and hit it with compressed air to get the detail.
When I finish a section I wash it down with laqure thinner and paper towels. You will find original sand marks from the factory, etc. I think the process is gental. The car should be washed carefully and dried when done. I am not sure what is best to wash it with. I will work on that later. I suspect I will use lots of water and lots of hot weather drying time.
Above all else, wear appropriate gloves and a respirator. They make a difference.Comment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Terry... I agree with you about having control of the situation. I'm also one that firmly believes in doing it myself as much as possible. I would only want to make one comment about your suggestions and this comes from a lot of painting experience. I would be careful about putting on a heavy coat of stripper on the primer and letting it set for a long time. I would actually prefer that the primer thats on the glass stay there after the stripper is neutralized and the car washed & cleaned up for the next step. I would then wet sand that primer off with a block. I think you will find that primer will provide a good trace/guide coat for blocking. You will also find it will wet sand easily. Once you have blocked it down to the glass your ready for the next step without using all that lacquer thinner to wash the car down with. Remember the exposed strands of glass fibers will act like a wick and absorb the thinner and solvents. These will need to breath so I like to let the car sit for a while before starting the paint process. The last thing you want is for that solvent or moisture to try to escape when its 80 degrees out and your car is sitting in the sun at a show.Comment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Steve,
If the car is to be restored to correct original, then I disagree with the use of sandpaper for the final removal of primer. It may be acceptable for some glass surfaces above the body line but most of the areas below that line were not sanded at the assy plant so all of the original texture/character of the glass would be lost if sanded. At the most, I would use fine scuff pads and laq thinner, ESPECIALLY in the louver panels and other areas that were never sanded by either the panel mfg or St. Louis. There are many areas of both C1 and C2 bodies that never saw a piece of sandpaper and the glass texture shows clearly through the original paint.
If it's a Barrett-Jackson special, then none of the above matters because the buyers want Mercedes quality, not authentic Corvette.Comment
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Thanks for the feedback, Terry *NM*
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Captain Lee's paint stripper worked well for me. Did not soften the fiberglass and comes in a spray on formula. Patience is key and ventilation is a plus unless dain bramage is appealing to you. Scotch pad and laquer thinner for the final primer removal worked great then give her a bath with warm soapy water. Check the archives. Messy but rewarding job and will cost you about 60 bucks total. KenComment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Why would the factory apply the primer and then put a guide color over it? Then sand the guide color off till it shows the base primer under it? This is how I understood the factory painted and prepped the Corvette body. They sanded the primer till it was down to the color under it. When you paint the car you will have to use primer and the primer will need to be sanded to prep the car correctly. So your saying I will ruin my car because I do not want to soak an aged fibreglass body with scuff pads soaked in lacquer thinner? But you will not loose any "texture "( or add to it) by soaking the glass with paint stripper? How do you prime the car to paint it? What about all the talk on here about using gelcoat and epoxy primers?
Did those same fiberglass bodies age and pick up the fingerprint of the glass as they aged? Sure... But we have to also remember the factory was working with something we will never have again... NEW fiberglass fresh out of the press. Not the aged and paint stripper abused glass we have to work with.Comment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Steve,
The first thing that everyone must understand about the original paint procedure is that sanding of the primer was mostly limited to the part of the body above the body line. If you listen to professional painters, they will tell you that every square inch of primer was originally sanded at the factory and the same must be done on a repaint or the material won't stick. This is absolutely not true, at least for lacquer. Everyone has a mental picture of some little old guy hand sanding these cars at the plant with a small piece of sand paper. Actually, the only sanding that was done was done with a six inch orbital sander and nothing else. One worker per side did all of the primer sanding in less than 10 minutes so that may give you some idea of the lack of detail that went into this operation. The areas of the body below the body line usually were not sanded at all and any areas that the sander wouldn't fit into, such as louvers or concave surfaces, was not sanded at all. If I was a writer, I could write an entire book about the way these cars were prepared and painted, and another entire book about how they were NOT prepared and painted. If you have access to an original paint 63-67 car, take a good look at the upper section of the door, above the body line. The convex surface will be reasonably flat and wave/ripple free but then look at the upper few inches, the concave surface. You'll clearly see that absolutely no sanding was done in this area because the sander wouldn't lay flat on this surface and, as mentioned previously, there was no little old guy hand sanding these areas by hand. Unfortunately, the number of original paint cars left to study is getting smaller by the day and soon all this info will be lost.
The myth about primer not sticking to unsanded fiberglass is just that, a myth. If you've ever stripped one of these cars, you quickly learn how well it sticks, even in areas like louvers or the area just above the rocker mldg. The proof that the glass or primer never being sanded is clearly visible on original paint cars. These areas show the raw texture of unsanded glass. You can see all the strands of glass right through the primer and color. The original paint on both of my 63's stuck pretty well for over 40 years over unsanded glass and primer.
The two different colors of primer were used as a depth signal while sanding. If an area seemed to require more than the usual quick pass with the sander, the second color primer would alert the worker that additional prime may be required for that area.
As far as gel coat, there was no such thing in production on any Corvette body. This was something that was brought about by the refinish industry, not the St. Louis body line. It's a repair system that is still used by some for areas that have been repaired but is not recommended for any panel that still retains it's original configuration and srface. Epoxy primer would fall into somewhat the same category. It tends to flow out more than conventional lacquer primer and masks the original texture of the glass in the unsanded areas previously discussed.
If a proper paint stripper is used properly, there is no softening of the resin. I've allowed stripper to sit on bare panels for several hours with no neg effects. I suppose a stripper designed for steel cars would be more dangerous but I think we all know better than to try this.
I agree, this process is not for everyone but if you are truly RESTIRING a Corvette, you can't have it looking like a Mercedes when it's finished. It all depends on what you want for a finished product.
The correct original look really isn't that bad. GM sure sold a lot of new Corvettes over the years with body/paint that looked a bit less than perfect. I don't remember anyone in the 60's saying "I don't want a new Corvette because I can see ripples in the sides near the bottom".
I've painted a few of these cars now, just exactly the same way they were done on the assy line when new and there isn't any paint falling off anywhere. Even in areas where the glass and primer never saw a piece of sand paper. It works, and the car is about as close as can be to looking like original paint.Comment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
One thing that is still a little bit unclear to me is how do you protect the base coat when working with these paint removers? Can someone please explain this to me a little bit more!
ErikComment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Erick,
Once the stripper is on you just wait for the lap dance and then you will know what to do
Not sure what your question is. If you put stripper on your car at any time it will cut through all the paint. You can't control how deep it will go. IT will effect all the layers, ie base coat, clear coat, primers, etc.
TerryComment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Exactly Terry, it cuts through all the various types of paint. The reason for asking is that I thought that I had read somewhere that you should never remove the original base coat from the car, but apparently this is not possible if you use chemicals. So I would assume that it is OK to fully strip a car before building up various layers of paint or does somebody has a different view on this?
ErikComment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
When it comes to removing the final layer of primer from the car I think that has more to do with the paint system you plan on putting over it. The paint system may want you to remove all old paint and primer. By not removing the old primer you also maintain as much of the outer layer of the panels which has mostly resin in it. If you start to sand into it you will expose more fiberglass strands and that will wick liquids/moister/humidity into the panel possibly coming out later. People like to refer to this outer layer as gellcoat but it is just whatever the resin happens to be made out of that day. This is based on my personal observation. TerryComment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Michael,
You are very knowledgable about the paint process from the factory and I don't intended to dispute that point. It seems my reason for warning not to wash and scrub a car with lacquer thinner has been misunderstood.
I see a lot of discussion about blisters, solvent pop and other paint failures and most people do not understand what is behind the cause. We need to remember we no longer have fresh glass out of a press. Yes there will be a LOT of mechanical adhesion for the primer. The factory setting with heated booths was ideas conditions for working with this new glass body. The heat would allow far greater flow and leveling to occur than we can duplicate.
I've worked with a lot more bodies that were redone more than once. The glass was very abused by the different refinishing and stripping processes. The resin was eroded, body lines sanded off with DA's and strands of glass sticking up like a kid with his first summer crew cut. This body is porus, cracked ( may need a light scope to see them but they are there). So... what causes blisters? Contamination, dirt, solvent,moisture trapped down in this aged fiberglass body. There is a lot we cannot avoid because we use solvent as a vehicle to put the paint on the body. What we do want to do is take measure to limit the amount of exposure for this to occur. If we used a chemical stripper and there is trace amounts of it still on the body along with the remains of primer it needs to come off. We can use the scrubby pad and lacquer thinner to do this and it will work great. The solvent puts the primer back into solution again and we wipe some of it off. We also disolved remaining chemicals from the stripper and a host of other contaninents now in solution. While the scrubbing action works great for dissolving the primer ask yourself where the thinner and all its contaminents are going? You are forcing them deep into every pore every microscopic crack in that body as well as the capilary action of the glass fibers that wick it up and suck it down deep into the glass. Will it dry? Yes, at least on the surface. When it drys the contaminents remain behind. We now paint our clean body and it looks great. We added more solvents by painting it to. We finish our refinishing and it looks great. It will have a reasonable life span too if kept indoors. The paint is fresh so it breaths very well. The new paint smell is the solvents escaping. The solvents continue to escape even after we no longer smell it. Where did the contamination go? the solvent that sucked deep into the body? Still there like a timebomb. Now take your baby out on a beautiful day. The sun does its magic and cures the surfece of that new paint film. Still no sign of a problem but wait. That surface now cures to a point it no longer breaths. It is also shrinking as its drys out. Another sunny day works its magic and pulls on those trapped solvents so they rise up out of that body and migrate up to the top of the primer layers but they cannot escape through the paint film. They do however collect into droplets under that paint film. Water or solvent only means a different size blister. Now when the sun heats up that body those droplets turn to steam and expand. The paint film refuses to let the steam escape so it concentraits its energy in one confined area and "POP"... you have a blister in your beautifull paint job. Too bad it is not just one... It's a nice collection of them. They maybe in select areas but it doesn't really matter cause the paint job is ruined.
now I'm not saying everyone is going to have a blister problem, but I am saying we do know what causes blisters. We can take steps to help ourselves avoid situations that can promote the likelyhood of getting them. Scrubbing my body with lacquer thinner is something I will avoid doing but others will choose to do it... the saying goes we learn from our mistakes... Well my years of being an RM paint rep gave me the advantage of seeing a lot of mistakes. When it was a problem I couldn't determine I would send samples out to my labs in Whitehouse, OH. Be surprised what they can find. Like I said before we learn from our mistakes.Comment
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Re: C2 Paint Removal
Steve,
You make some very good points about the trapped chemicals in the glass. I believe most of this happens when paint stripper is used to remove the last of the primer. Many restorers use stripper capable of removing factory primer and this is a large part of the problem. As you mentioned, the chemicals in the stripper work their way into the fiberglass so proper adhesion is not possible if these chemicals are not removed. This problem would get worse as the original surface becomes more porous due to over agressive body sanding or improper paint removal that opens the glass fibers.
This is the reason I recommended first removing the paint with stripper, then cleaning the entire body/primer carefully with lacquer thinner which would remove the last of the striper residue/chemicals. Once the stripper is gone, the primer can be safely removed with lac thinner without danger of mixing old stripper into the surface. Now, the thinner can, and will, soak into the glass during the primer removal operation but the only thing that dives down into the glass is primer and thinner. If enough time is allowed between the stripping operation and first prime, the thinner evap's out, carrying with it some of the primer and moisture. The problem starts when the panel is not allowed to exhale all of the thinner, as you mentioned. Fast thinner works much like a can of Brake Clean. If you spray a stream of Brake Clean on an oil smudged surface, the smudge will eventually disappear along with the cleaner.
I've learned that the vast majority of shop complaints about material lift problems are self induced and not the result of the product. Just about every paint blister complaint, if the truth be known, will fall back to procedure. I've been in shops that strip the material off of a fiberglass panel at 11:00 AM and by 2:00 PM, the final coat of color is back on the panel. When they call the paint supplier a few months later about paint blistering, they never admit the truth about the time element.
I agree, the lacquer thinner wash will never work if there isn't enough time allowed for proper evaporation and, as you mentioned, becomes worse in areas of previous repairs or over sanding but if the stripper isn't allowed to come in contact with the raw glass, it shouldn't be a problem.
I think for the most part, you and I were saying some of the same things, just in a different way. We agree that the stripper is in fact the worst thing that can settle into the glass. I also think that many of the blister complaints come from areas on cars that have been repaired. Field body repair areas are a completely different story than original fiberglass panels and factory bond material.
Sure would like to have that complete St. Louis paint booth and equipment in my back yard. And some of that original OE paint in Milano Maroon.Comment
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