62 belts OK?

[Chris H.]

My VIN is 2654.

I have 4 panel weave, 810 painted female latch's and 235 (upside down) males. All labels are gone but I swear at one time there was an Irving Air Chute label on one of them.

The JGM says "through approximately 2500"

I am OK for Judging, right?

Also, who just posted the pictures of the red belts. I need help finding the pics in the archives.
thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=4531180942&rd=1

[Rob Edwards]

Re: 62 belts OK?

Chris-

I can't speak to the correctness of your belts, but I did post the pic of belts. Strangely, they don't come up in a search of the archives (keywords: 'CS-5000', or 'redux'). Anyway, here's a link to a few of them, including the view showing thicknesses:

https://webfiles.uci.edu/redwards/public/seatbelt%20thickness%20comparo%203-26-05.jpg?uniq=8fd3dz

And one of the samples:

https://webfiles.uci.edu/redwards/public/seatbelt%20samples%203-24-05.jpg?uniq=8fd3e4

I also attached a shot of the cleaned belts on top of Al Knoch red vinyl for comparison.

Yell if you need anything else!

[Rob Edwards]

Re: 62 belts OK?

One more shot: The old belts, one clean and one dirty, along with the suggested samples from Ssnake-Oyl

[Michael D.]

Re: 62 belts OK?

THOSE LOOK REALLY GOOD , WHAT DID YOU USE?

[Rob Edwards]

Re: 62 belts OK?

I soaked them one at a time in about a quart of undiluted Simple Green in one of those pyrex measuring cups, with occasional stirring for 10-15 minutes, then brushed under cold water in the sink with a nylon bristle brush. That got most of it, but there were some tough stains near where they thread thru the anchors. So I ran one through the clothes washer, gentle cycle in cold water (held my breath the whole time!) and let it air dry. This got out almost all the stains, so I repeated this process on the other 3 webbings. They're much softer now too. I sent them to Ssnake Oyl to sew some new male buckles into them, hopefully they will declare them structurally sound enough to do so.

[Clare Carpenter]

More '62 belt info

Here is the link you are looking for with additional good info on the subject.

https://www.ncrs.org/forum/tech.cgi/noframes/read/172175&expand/1

I sent mine out to Charlie Santorelli of Seat Belt Sity for evaluation. He came highly recommended and apparently has done alot of work for NCRS type restorations. Some refer to him as the "Soup ****" of seatbelts. He didn't want me to touch them at all before sending them to him. I will be talking with him next week to see what he recommends.

My car is a 3000 range Vin and has painted 810 model buckles with "Federal" spec Irving Air Chute lables. My older judging manual (yellow cover) states the 810's were only used up to around Vin 2500, if I recall correctly. Mine are definately original to my car. Later manuals may have revised that vin cutoff??

Paragon and CCentral have "remanufactured" vintage belts in their catalogs for around $300-350 pr set, depending on color and buckle design. I don't know if a set is one side or both.

[Chris H.]

Re: More '62 belt info

Thanks Rob, I think I will send a message to the '62 Team Leader Dave Heitzman.

[Mike E.]

Re: More '62 belt info

As per the latest 2 61-62 judging manuals---#6498 (red interior car)had CS5000 females, and 235 males.
Many years ago I did the initial article on seats belts for the RESTORER--then later on, Dale Pearman did another article, and in that article narrowed down the categories more narrowly than I had initially. (From that, Barbara Spears then did her seat belt book.) I've always felt that Dale didn't look at enough original cars and tried to get the categories too clean--and they just plain aren't that easy to narrow down, as this thread indicates.
Do send that information to Dave--butbe aware, as per the last Driveline--he and I are heading up the new revision of the 61-62 manual, so that information is already noted on this end.
If the buckles are indeed painted, please give a clear indication of why you believe that they were painted at the factory rather than by an earlier owner who didn't like the corrosion on the female latch--because the painted buckle portion is later than I would expect--but I don't put anything past Irvin/Irving
and the good General.
Mike Ernst

[Chris H.]

Re: More '62 belt info

Mike, how can I tell if these were unpainted at one time? I did paint them 16 years ago because they were slightly chipped. I am willing to remove the paint since they need painting again. Seems like if the paint is removed chemically you could tell if they were polished at one time.

Any owners out there with serial #'s between 2200 and 2700 that can look at their buckles and tell us if they are:
1) painted
2) US patent 2,458,810 or CS5000

also if you think they ar original?

thanks, Chris

[Chris H.]

Re: More '62 belt info-day counter

Mike I did a birthday counter.

2200 vin is 11/3
2500 is 11/9
2654 is 11/13

A car built on friday the 9th would have the 810 buckles and one built 2 days later on tuesday the 13 may not be correct with 810's?

The 3 is a saturday. ~6 working days til the 13. Again pretty close. Even if the new stock had come in and got onto the line it would be easy enough to have a box not be first in, first used and later cars get the parts.

I know this is all part of the quest to figure out what is right and anything can happen in a plant. I still remember my foreman telling me to throw about 8 6 cyl truck cranks into the machine cutting fluid runoff tank to hide them from quality control guys coming into the plant around '77.

Chris, I will also send this to Dave.

[Mike E.]

Re: More '62 belt info-day counter

Chris--
Those are simply approximations, based on best guesses. We didn't have both car #2200 and #2500 and examine them. I'd have absolutely no quarrel with 2654 fitting within the 2200-2500 guideline, especially if you can make a good argument for them being the ones that came with the car.
The problem we have is differentiating between the ones that came on the car, and the next car to be judged, where the guy swears they are correct and original because the guy he bought them from's uncle's cousin got them on ebay and the seller said his brother had a 59 split-window that was all original and these were like those. It's for that reason that we are reluctant to change information unless the source is well-documented and has nothing to personally gain from the change.

Did you take them completely apart when you repainted the flipper years ago? If not, there would be tell-tale signs on the un derside near the pivot that might have original paint or original unpainted metal.

Thanks!
Mike

[Anthony F.]

[Verne Frantz]

Re: 62 belts OK?

Rob,
Just another opinion:
One thing I've noticed on original belts was that even though a white thread was used to sew on the linin Irving AirChute label, the machine bobbin had the same color thread in it as the belt webbing. I've never seen the white thread on the reverse side of the label.
Verne

[Chris H.]

Re: More '62 belt info-day counter

I have written quite a few part tryouts myself. Oshawa demands that all new parts come in about 2-4 weeks ahead of full production for a 20 car tryout. Some plants did not require this. Of course Oshawa puts out the best quality cars in North America. (Century &/or Impala beat out all midsize's almost every year in JD Power quality).

Mike, I know I did not take apart to paint. And now in looking at the buckles I am starting to wonder if I even painted them. There is no overspray and to do a good job would have to be taken apart. I took a look at my pictures from back then and I have all my interior painted parts laying out in the sun to dry and there are no seatbelts. I do not think I even removed the belts from the car. I have posted the pictures on the below website. Let me know what you think. First I would like to know if these are most likely originally painted buckles and them I have to figure out if they are OK for my car.

name and password are both chenige if needed to get in.

Chris

http://www.photodex.com/sharing/viewalbum.html?alb=103522

[Rob Edwards]

Re: 62 belts OK?

Verne-

Good observation, I confess I hadn't really thought about that white thread on the 'male' webbing in that shot. There is no sign of any label on the other side of that belt, is that where a label would originally have been? I have been confused whether there is supposed to be a label on each of the four lengths of webbing, or only two (one on each 'female' belt, as appeared to be the case with my webbing) I sort of naively assumed that these belts were untouched originals, everything else I bought from the guy who sold them to me are original bits, but I'm typically wrong about such things..... 8-)