Corvette hobby

[Ross Flora]

I guess this is not really a technical issue, but I have to say something. I bought my Corvette for fun. I joined the NCRS to meet like minded people. I have met a few good people who are nice and have a conscience. But, quite frankly, there are far too many jack-asses and rip off artists in this hobby for me. I have never, in all my business career, seen such a collection of vultures hovering over the carcasses of dead parts in my life. I know that old parts are rare and demand a fairly high price. But like the saying goes, "at least I get dinner first". If these guys would at least understand that not everybody in this hobby is Jay Leno, and be pleasent while demanding thousands of dollars for a three hundred obsolete part, I guess I could manage. But to be told to like it or shove it is something else. It seems that one has to become a hostage to a group of jerks to get parts for an NCRS top flight car. I can understand someone being a "character" or "curmudgeon" or even just "chrusty", but not a certified jack-ass. I guess this is a feeding frenzy brought by the Barrett-Jackson orgy, but quite frankly it is ruining the hobby. When my membership runs out, that's it for me. I'll go buy a Triumph or something.

[Mark S.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Ross:

Sorry to hear about your frustrations! With this large of a group, NCRS, will mimic the ideosyncrasies of our society. The Corvette hobby will bring out the best and worst in many individuals; however, there are many people who are honest and willing to help. I have also had some bad experiences, but the good ones outweigh the bad ones. I have been a member since 1983 and I have a large group of sincere friends; who share the passion for this marque. In addition to my Corvettes, I have a Triumph; and there seems to be a simiar makeup of individuals. I believe that the hobbby is what you make it. We all can find bad in the world!

Sincerely,

Mark

[Scott S.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Ross, I am troubled by your remarks on the Corvette Hobby. My family has been a members of NCRS since 1978. We have travelled to many NCRS events and seen most of the United States as a result of our travels. We have had our cars judged on many occassions. We have bought, traded and sold parts with fellow NCRS members with great success. In fact most of my personal friends are members of NCRS. My views of the Barrett are similar to yours. Many Corvette hobbyists have benefited from NCRS, you too can if you give it a chance. I am not sure where you reside, if you live in Canada maybe I can introduce you to some good Corvette people.
Sincerely,
Scott Sinclair
#2379

[Mike E.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Ross--what is "fun"? You say that you got your car for "fun."
Some of us get fun out of walking 3 days at Carlisle after driving 800 miles to get there, all in hopes of finding a part for a restoration.
Some of us have fun by driving an all-original car with the top down.
Some of us couldn't care less whether our car is original or not. We just like to drive it.
Some of us like to polish our cars.
Some of us have fun by owning trailer queens and watching them appreciate.
Some of us have fun by helping others with information, parts, and tips for restoration.
Some of us have fun by spending hours and hours looking at a crusty old car that has just been hauled out of a barn, and we take pages and pages of notes.
I'm not sure what your expectations of the hobby are, but there are many of us who are good people who resell parts only because we like to upgrade our cars, and we can't afford to take massive amounts out of the family budget.
Others have fun making a living at it.
Some people have wonderful personalities and will help with anything--others will try to take advantage of everyone else. The Corvette hobby is simply a microcosm of society and of life.
NCRS is NOT to blame for the ills of the Corvette hobby.
I, for one, have had numerous negative experiences with those who have joined the NCRS to take advantage of those of us who volunteer time and energy and wisdom. They'll take everything they can get from us, get a top flight that increases the value of their car, sell the car, drop their membership, and move on to something else. That's happened to me many times over the past 30 years that I've been 61-62 team leader twice and overseen now a third juding manual revision.
Does that make NCRS bad? I don't think so. I choose to appreciate the relationships and the cars, and move past those who are only about personal gain. I choose not to let them drag me down. That's my choice, and that's your choice.
Good luck, and do, truly, have fun with your Corvette!!!!!!

[Clare Carpenter]

Re: Corvette hobby

Some of the "certified jack-asses, rip off artists, and collection of vultures" you described may have joined the NCRS just for access to the true Corvette enthusiasts who make up the bulk of NCRS membership and to whom they hope to sell their parts, services and used cars to. Some of these guys have horse trading in their genes and they know car values have gone up, and with it, "parts" too. They make their livings, some of them, traveling like gypsies and attending meets and swaps all over the country, not just for Covettes. That can get expensive, with no guarantee they'll make a profit. After a slow meet dealing with all the bid backs and critiques, you might get a "take it or leave it" or a "shove it". Don't take it personal, it's your money and you decide how you want to spend it. The "hunt" is part of the process, however frustrating. Make fun out of it.

Within the membership ranks you will also find some colorful "characters", "curmudgeons", and "chrusty" critters who make the ranks interesting but who also play very fair. In my own experience, I have had members give freely of their time and knowledge and even give me a part they could have sold me. Corvettes are expensive, relatively speaking and building a Top Flight car is more expensive due to the standards required and rarety of some parts but it is NOT the only way to enjoy a Corvette. You have to decide how you want to participate. Restoring a Triumph is probably harder and more expensive and just because a "jackass" has a British accent doesn't make him less of a jackass. There's good and bad in every large group.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Corvette hobby

So are you mad at the hobby? The NCRS? The parts vultures? Each, in my thoughts, is a different group.

The overall Corvette hobby also includes the autocrossers, the show-and-shiners, the Sunday drivers, the daily drivers, and many others. The NCRS is a PART of the Corvette hobby, but only a small part. We have the restored cars, the original cars, the driver cars, the original owners, the 324th owners of a salvage title car owners, the I'm-going-to-accessorize-my-55-with-every-available-GM-dealer-option owners, the...well, you get the drift.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your vultures don't really reflect the NCRS as a whole. Apparently you want (?) to spend thousands for what you deem to be a $300 part. Fine. But is your enjoyment in getting the part no matter what the cost? In finishing the car? In receiving the Top Flight? From whence cometh the "fun" you say you were looking for? I think that once you determine that, you'll feel better.

I enjoy judging, learning about the cars, and even showing my 72. But mostly I enjoy the cameraderie. I have met many of the people who frequent this Board and have more fun getting together with them for dinner after an event than I might on the actual show field. A dinner after our recent Dallas judging school comes to mind, as does staying with a fellow NCRS member while my car was being judged half way across the country. In addition, I had dinner 6 days ago on the other side of the country with Joe Lucia when I visited his area on vacation.

Oh, and I enjoy driving my 72 to meets as well as driving my not-so-original 71 daily in the summer. That's fun too.

So if you're looking for fun, you've come to the right place. I think you first have to determine, however, what "fun" means to you. The car is just a "vehicle" (pun intended) for the fun. You'll find the same types of people whether you're into Camaros, Mustangs, vintage gas pumps or Cushman scooters.

Patrick

[Larry S.]

[Larry S.]

Re: Corvette hobby

"So are you mad at the hobby? The NCRS? The parts vultures? Each, in my thoughts, is a different group."

Patric
WOW Excellent point of veiw

One sentance pretty much sums the whole thing up,

[Donald B.]

Re: Corvette hobby

My first experience with the NCRS was when I "cold called" a couple judges looking to find someone to look at a '62 I was interested in. A judge went out looked at the car, called me with his assessment, and then REFUSED to take any money for his time, effort, or gas. His only request was to let him know if I ended up purchasing the car (which I did).

My other experiences have been posting several questions. Each time I got numerous responses all of which attempted to honestly answer my questions.

As for jerks, a-holes, etc. trying to sell you something. Like anything else in life - you need to be skeptical.

If you elect to drop the NCRS, that is your choice, and in my opinion - a MISTAKE !

[Scott Marzahl]

Re: Corvette hobby

I joined NCRS for the very same reason as you, to meet folks who are having fun with this hobby and for the most part I have done just that. It's not any different than any other car or motorcycle club. I have no desire to jump through the hoops or spend big bucks to restore a car to Top Flight status, so I don't worry the purist's comments or about the rip off's out there. However, original parts are becoming rarer all the time, and there is always someone with more money than sense. So can you knock the business or fellow for maximizing on his investment? I've sold a fair amount of old parts off of my car on EBay that I consider less than useable and I am amazed at what people pay for stuff, broken, working or otherwise. A quality reproduction part is fine for me, notice I said quality repro, not junk like a lot of vendors are pedaling. I have come across a lot of great folks in NCRS and most are willing to share there thoughts, tips and experiences with you. I've given folks parts and received a few at no cost too. I've even sent parts to vendors for rebuilding and had them returned before paying for their services. I continue to enjoy this orgainization and continue to support it. Just my 2 cents.

[Ross Flora]

Re: Corvette hobby

Hey, This is a great discussion! I needed some encouragement, and some friendly, thought provoking, criticism. No, I am not mad at the NCRS, nor am I especially upset with the hobby. I enjoy shows, Bloomington, the national museum, laying under a car on a nice day, etc. And I don't mind reasonable trade, and bargining for parts to restore these cars. And I agree that the "curmudeons","characters", and "chrusty's" add spice to any group, in fact I believe I'm in that fraternity. I guess I'm just tired of the "market pricing" attitude of some parts carnivores. I actually had a guy tell me that his price was based on the value the part added to my car. I guess he had some supernatural price guide duct taped to his brain, or had a calculator amortizing my investment. Well anyway, please nobody get me wrong, my wrath is focused on a very narrow segment of the hobby. Many of who are, as someone pointed out, attracted to this group because, as someone said, "that's where the money is" Thanks for the responses - Ross

[Dick W.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Rev. Mike, Scott, Don, Patrick, and others, some very good comments. I belong to NCRS for the cameraderie, fellowship, common love of the Corvette. I was at the Louisana Regional a couple of weeks ago and did a little reflecting. I looked around at all the people there and the good time that they were having. If I had not joined NCRS there was only one individual attending that I would have ever had a chance to meet and enjoy the fellowship of.

I have endured the flustrations of vultures when I restored cars. I was probably called one when I was in the parts business. Like most of the vendors, I just tried to make an honest living, not get rich. A very few of the individuals that lurk on ebay and in the swap meets give all a bad name. When you run across the turkey that tells you to take it or leave it, just grin at him and wish him a nice day. That is a very polite way of chopping them off at the knees.

I consider NCRS my extended family which I share the good times and the bad. I have been as saddened by the loss of friends here as I have my blood relatives. Cars come and cars go. But the good times and friends will always be cherished.

Rethink your decision and enjoy the hobby. We are not all the low lifes that you have seem to have encountered

[Patrick H.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Right on, Dick.

I was thinking similarly after the Dallas event. I don't know that there was anyone there that I would have been spending time with were it not for the NCRS. I walked up to you when I arrived at the event and we started talking as if we'd know each other for years, when in fact we'd only spent significant time together online (I knew who you were; it's hard to miss you by the description).

In 20 years of being a part of the hobby (yes, I started my senior year of high school), there are three things that have acquainted me with more people than anything else: 1. Writing my series of tech articles for Vette magazine, 2. Joining my local Corvette club (and then starting a new one when I moved) and 3. Joining NCRS. The NCRS is the one I spend the most time with at this point in life.

Patrick

[Joe L.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Ross------

Keep this in mind: as far as a FUNCTIONAL part to keep your car on the road there are VERY, VERY, VERY few that you will have to resort to the parts "vultures" to get. Most of these are available in reproduction, new GM, or replacement. These parts might not be 100% correct, but they will be 100% functional and will not be discerned by 99.5% of the folks that look at your car. Of the 0.5% that can tell the difference, 90% of those won't care. So, you can satisfy just about everyone with affordable parts that MAY be ever-so-slightly incorrect.

The "parts vultures" sell pieces that are rare and which SOME folks are willing to pay absurd prices for. The supply of these parts is small and the "supply" of the folks willing to pay those prices is small, too. These tend to be "trendy" items (like distributor caps; correct numbered carburetors, distributors, alternators and starters; original owners manuals; original-style air cleaner elements, original style fuel filters, original style fuel pumps; etc.). You don't NEED any of these things. In fact, you may not even need them to get a Top Flight or other judging entity award.

[Paul B.]

Re: Corvette hobby

Hmmm....I guess this is just "Corvette related"??? I take it you never been to a Ford meet and see what some "rare" Ford cars and parts are bringing ala '63 Ford Galaxie 427 Lightweight or teh '64 Ford Thunderbolts??? You don't think "vultures" feed off of "HEMI" parts??? Ever price '69 Z/28 Camaro crossram intakes, 4 wheel disc brake set-ups & cars lately??? Before criticizing the Corvette hobby, spend some time at the aforementioned shows & swap meets then tell us your views on teh Corvette hobby.