F.I. Hydra-lock

[Jerry J.]

Re: The problem I had over last 2 weeks,

I pulled the oil pan and found the #2 rod had bent. That is the cylinder that had 110 lbs compression, compared to the others with 170 lbs..

Now, to put it all back together. UGH..

Does anyone have a solution to keep this from happening again ???

Thanks for all the responses to my earlier posts. It was a big help in focusing in on the cause & remedy...

This is such a TERRIFIC site with unselfish people who are always ready to help...

[Dennis C.]

Jerry, Before you restart your engine...

...I would acquire an electronic fuel shut off kit (suggest John DeGregory, who advertises in Driveline). The shut off valve installs very nicely under the FI plenum and is activated when you turn on the ignition switch. This valve prohibits the syphon activated bleed down of fuel into your cylinder/s. There is no deduction, judging wise, should that be a concern. It is really the only fool proof method of preventing what you have experienced, and is cheap insurance. Don't leave home without one. Best, Dennis

[Dennis C.]

Another possible bonus...

...If you worry from time to time about drive-away theft, you can put an in-line switch, hidden under your dash (or other). If used, the bandit will very quickly run out of fuel. Just be sure when you go on an outing, remember to deactivate it to save undue embaresment.

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Another possible bonus...

Jerry, the kit which John sells includes the wiring. I believe it costs around $150. The wire normally will attach to the ballast resistor in the same spot where your choke wire currently goes (in parallel). Each time you turn the key you will hear an audible click when the solenoid is energized. No click, no start. Like Dennis said, you can always install a switch in the line for security.

[Chuck G.]

Re: F.I. Hydra-lock

I hope that you're having the FI rebuilt, and replacing the spider, which has its' own internal siphon breaker in the center.

There's also another siphon breaker in the fuel meter. One or both are not functioning. If you don't replace them, you'll bend another rod. Chuck

[Roy B.]

Re: Jerry, Before you restart your engine...

Came back from the Oregon NCRS meet 23 years ago, jacked my FI 57 up from the back to look for a raddle, sat it back down and WALA !nock! nock! nock! . As soon as I heard it I new just what it was ( been there ,done that ) in the 50's to another 57 I had. To solve the problem I got and used an electric fuel solenoid from a 65 FI. The good thing about using it is that as you turn the key holding it to get started it also shoots gas in to the spider making the FI start RIGHT NOW no cranking as some early FI need. THAT"S WHAT YOU SHOULD GET. Not just a shut off solenoid , because the 65 will also shut off when you turn the engine off , but that's ME

I took this rod to many meets many years ago to inform others and to use the FI 65 solenoid.

[Dennis C.]

Chuck, I respectfully disagree...

...with you regarding the 2 safe guards and the need to "replace them" or another rod will be bent from fuel entering the cylinder. The siphon breaker in the fuel meter is upstream of the fuel shut off so it no longer matters whether it functions correctly or not. If the spider is equipped with a gravity operated shut off valve, the electric fuel valve in the closed position, I believe, will keep what little fuel is in the spider from leaking down. Even if a few drops from the spider should find there way into a cylinder, which I doubt would happen, I believe absolutely no risk of damage would be present. Best, Dennis

[Jerry J.]

Re: Jerry, Before you restart your engine...

I would like to thank all who responded to my problem and offered solutions..

I did get with John DeGregory. He is shipping what I need..
All of the responses were very much appreciated and really helpful..

Thanks loads.. "Your In Good Hands With NCRS."

[Michael D.]

Re: Jerry, Before you restart your engine...

ROY YOU SAID IT WOULD SHOOT GAS INTO THE SPIDER TO ALLOW A FI CAR TO START RIGHT AWAY, WHEN YOU HIT THE START POSITION OF THE SWITCH ( IF I AM UNDERSTANDING YOU CORRECTLY). ARE YOU USING A SOLENOID FOR THE CRANKING SIGNAL VALVE (THUS THE SOLENOID IS CONNECTED TO THE PUPPLE WIRE ON THE STARTER) OR ARE YOU USING IT FOR A SHUT OFF AND CONNECTED TO THE BALLAST RESISTOR? SOME PEOPLE HAVE TWO SOLENOIDS ON THEIR FI UNITS IN THIS NECK OF THE WOODS

[G B.]

Solenoid kit's great, but only for L57 - 62 units.

The electric solenoid shut-off kit is a great improvement in anti-siphon protection because it is spring loaded to "fail closed". However, the kit sold by John and many others is not designed to fit all of the '57 - '65 FI series.

Early '57 4360 units had dual 4-legged spiders. The regular solenoid kit won't fit this application, but Frank Antonicelli has designed a dual solenoid anti-siphon fix that will work with this series.

The 1963 through 1965 FI units (7375, 7375R, and 7380 series) had single spiders but are configured in a way that the kit won't work. There simply isn't enough room to fit a solenoid in the short feed tube from the fuel meter to the spider hub. You could route some home-made tubing to get to/from a shut-off solenoid in some remote spot, but it would require some pretty creative custom work. A 7380 unit already has one solenoid mounted below the plenum for a starting circuit line. That series unit would have even less spare room under the plenum for a second solenoid for anti-siphon protection. And no, the 7380 starting circuit solenoid doesn't provide any anti-siphon protection at all.

The '60 through '65 units had a factory anti-siphon pill valve in the fuel meter. Proper sealing of that valve is essential to having the unit run right. The pill valve is a hollow brass barrel with a tiny hole in the top. An aluminum ball is trapped inside. When the gear pump pressurizes the inside of the valve with flowing gas, the ball is pushed into the top hole to seal it. The gas flow can then continue on to the spider/spill valve. When the engine is stopped, the gas flow pressure falls off and the ball drops. This exposes the anti-siphon vent hole again. In a badly worn pill valve, the ball gets stuck in the hole and and won't fall out when the flow stops. In a WORN OUT pill valve, the ball is pushed completely out the hole. Most of the gas flow from the gear pump then goes out the hole rather than on to the spider.

The anti-siphon needle valve in the spider center hub must also function properly in a '63-5 unit for the FI to run well. The '63-5 spider needle valve is spring loaded because it is upside down. Earlier spider hub anti-siphon needle valves were seated by gravity alone. In a '63-5 unit, the flow back-pressure offered by the needle valve is especially critical. For those years the spider is fed off a tee fitting in tubing loop upstream of the spill valve. If the hub needle valve gets stuck open, the back-pressure of the spider will drop and the unit will run too rich at low rpm.

[Roy B.]

Re: Jerry, Before you restart your engine...

The 65 FI solenoid is part of the spider system on a 65 FI, it acts like a fuel pump on the cranking side as you start the engine.
I once broke the drive pump cable miles from a gas station in the desert so the vett stopped , I ran a HOT wire from the hot side of the ballast and a wire from the FI solenoid hot side then ran both in to the cab where I could connect them when I started the vett. The solenoid acting as a fuel pump started the engine and I drove like hell at 80 mph running real rich till I got to town.But it got me there where I got a new cable. After that I always carried one.
Yes it can be used as a cranking signal valve in early FI's (I was mistaken) , it is not a shut off, they added a second solenoid as a SHUT OFF.Sorry about that ! it's been a long time when I had a 65FI.