EPA Warnign on Alternate Refrigerants

[Dick W.]

With the several posts on the use of different substitues for R-12, I thought this would make interesting reading.

EPA Issues Refrigerant Warning

The Environmental Protection Agency, several trade associations and manufacturers of heating and air conditioning systems warned commercial vehicle owners to avoid hydrocarbon refrigerants being sold as inexpensive substitutes for HFC-134a and CFC-12.

The agency said the refrigerants, marketed under such names as OZ-12, Duracool 12a and HC-12a, are not worth the risk to buyers.

The refrigerants may contain large quantities of propane, butane or other highly flammable gases, and there is insufficient proof that they are safe for mobile air conditioning systems, EPA said.

EPA warned that leaking air conditioners charged with hydrocarbons pose serious risks of fire or explosion under the hood or inside the passenger compartment

[Jack H.]

Does the EPA give equal time to...

the greater dangers of putting highly flammable gasoline in the tank and wrapping the chassis with highly flammable fiberglass?

[Mark #28455]

Freeze 12 is EPA approved and works *NM*

[Dick W.]

Re: Freeze 12 is EPA approved and works

When you use the alternative refrigerants you creat another problem. Who is going to recycle them? ALL shops that I know of will NOT reclaim any automotive refrigerant other that R-134 a or R-12. Any of the others contaminate their equipment. Most reputable shops now test to see what is in the systems now. What do you do now when you need to perform a major repair on your system that necessitates removal of refrigerant? Dump it into the air? I have had this argument going for several years now. I have a license to purchase R-12, R-134a and others. I will not contaminate my customers or my own systems for a few dollars.

[Mark #28455]

can't get R12 anymore

I am also able to legally purchase R12 except, in the Orlando area, I called over 20 suppliers and they just don't want to bother with a product that is a major hassle to carry (with all the documentation requirements for sale and taxes if you own more than 300# - as any large chain would) for such a small profit margin. The advantage of Freeze 12 is that it is EPA approved, non-flammable, and actually works really well in a R12 system unlike r134a that just doesn't seem to blow cold. As you are aware, any time you convert to an alternate refrigerant, you should label the system so as not to cross-contaminate any recovery systems.

In my case, it's not just an issue of money, the R12 just isn't available anymore so you are left with R134a that doesn't work well without major changes or Freeze 12 that does.

Mark

[Clem Z.]

freeze 12 is R-414B i believe *NM*

[Dick W.]

Re: can't get R12 anymore

I have converted several systems over to R-134a with good results. Expansion valve systems, VIR, and CCOT all seem to work equally as well. I do not arbitrarily convert a system over unless there has been a catastropic failure, compressor failure, condensor or evaporator. I have always replaced the condenser. If you have a dissicant bag failure the materials seem to always settle in the bottom of the condensor. Normal trash also settles there. The worst system that I have done would pull down to 42 degrees, the best to 37. Have done four of my own with as good or better cooling as they did with R-12.

[Roger S.]

Re: freeze 12 is R-414B i believe

I believe Freeze 12 is 80% 134A and 15-20% R-142. Per the MSDS. The R-142 is used to mix with the F-12 mineral oil and the 134A. The R-142 has similiar properties to R-12.

Roger