To race or Not to Race a C 1

[Debra P.]

I was out looking to minis today. I raced the in the late 60's. I also was looking at the races in Nevada. Good idea or bad. my car is supposed to be the only unrestored 58 in the county. Help, what do I do folks ?
Thanks,
Deb

[Wayne P.]

Re: To race or Not to Race a C 1

I don't know what minis have to do with it, but I would not seriously race a nice original 58, except maybe in a straight line.

[Gary Bishop]

Re: To race or Not to Race a C 1

If you want to "race" an older Vette buy one allready prepaired. A street Vette would be dangerous.

[mike cobine]

To Get a few ideas on racing an old Corvette

this the one below and also start checking some of the racing sites.

The Nevada Races open road races are pretty wild events. You run the risk of no car each time.




Vintage Corvette Race Cars

[Duke W.]

Re: To race or Not to Race a C 1

What kind of racing are you talking about? Drag? Road racing? Autocross?

I did the Silver State Classic Challenge twice - 128 MPH average, 132 MPH on radar in my box stock '88 MBZ 190E 2.6 in 1989 and 140 MPH average (first 30 miles was wet road) and 161 MPH on radar (after the road dried out) in a Saleen Mustang I souped up in 1990 that was owned by my navigator.

Back then the rules were pretty loose. The Saleen had no specialized safety equipment - just the production belts and a 2.5 pound fire extinguisher, and my navigator and I wore nomex and Snell helmets. You can't do than anymore. Without specialized equipment your're limited to 115 MPH. I knew it was akin to Russian Roulette, but I had confidence in my ability to properly prepare the car for this event and confidence in my own driving skills. (I have significant SCCA racing and open track driving experience.)

Tire selection and preparation is particularly critical in open road racing and the criteria are different than racing on a closed circuit. In '88, the first year I ran, a Ferrari Testrossa crashed killing the driver's wife who was navigating. A tire failure was suspected, and I saw many participants error in tire selection and preparation. I wrote an article on the subject for the sanctioning club the next year.

My biggest concern was a crash due to a tire failure and being trapped in a burning car. Crash forces would probably be surviveable since there's nothing much to hit in the middle of the desert, but there's no way a production fuel system is going to stay intact if you crash at 150 MPH, so the car is probably going to burn.

Though I consider my two SSCC races to be some of the best experiences of my life, I don't think I would do it again.

I've come to grips with my mortality since then!

Duke

[mike cobine]

Simpler idea

If you don't want to read through that article, then try this:

If you want to race an old Corvette, buy an old Corvette race car that is already built to race.

If you want a stock old Corvette, don't race it.

The two do not mix. Sanctioning body rules usually require changes that hurt originality considerably. Fuel cells, roll bars/cages, racing seats, 5- and 6-point harnesses, driveshaft loops, fire systems, and such all end up with changes that usually cannot be changed back without leaving marks. It isn't as simple and painless as changing tires.

The odds of damage are great and you risk losing an original car. Damage can be as little as a blown engine or shredding a tire that rips off a chunk of fender. Either way, it isn't original anymore.

[Clem Z.]

2 people were killer the other day

doing fast laps at the NASCAR calif speedway in a $440,000 porsche carrea gt when they hit the wall. these cars have 600 HP and go 200 MPH. as the NASCAR drivers say the driver got a little behind in his steering. this could put the end to track days for play racers if there is a big law suit. racing is best done in a real race car with all the safety equiptment and sometimes that does not always work,dale earnhardt sr for example. if you are going to get over 75/80 MPH and there are solid things to hit i would think about it very hard. we raced stock cars with my son as a driver but this stopped when he got married and had more than himself to worry about. it was one of the best years of our lives when we were doing this together. he started out racing motorcycles,never got a scratch so his mother felt a lot better when he was surrounded by all that steel tubing.

[Don H.]

Re: To race or Not to Race a C 1

I have drag raced my stock 60 w/ FI for many years. It has held the Natioinal NCCC 1/4 mile record three times. I am going a little over 90 mph at shut down and that is PLENTY fast enough in a stock straight axle. Don H.

[Duke W.]

Re: 2 people were killer the other day

Yes, there's a lot of buzz about that crash on the Web. My current understanding is that the re-entry marshal waved a Ferrari on the track, but the driver hesistated, then the marshal gave a hold signal when he saw the Carrera GT, but the Ferrari driver took off. It's not clear to me how the re-entry was configured, but it could have been an issue if reentry is right onto the racing line. The course being used was in the infield, and did not include any part of the NASCAR/IRL/Champcar oval. The event was a one day affair (last Thursday) organized by the San Diego Chapter of the Ferrari Owner's Club.

The Carrera GT driver apparently saw the Ferrari enter and computed in his mind that they would collide, so he took evasive action, lost control, and hit a barrier broadside, which killed the passenger (he was dead at the scene) and caused fatal injuries to the driver - he died about an hour later either on the way (helicopter) to the hospital, or not long after arriving.

When contemplating racing it helps to understand some basic physics. First, the kinetic energy a car has will be dissipated in the crash and the higher the kinetic energy, the higher the peak g-forces, which are what cause fatal injuries. Also, kinetic energy is a function of velocity SQUARED, so a 150 MPH crash involve FOUR TIMES the kinetic energy of a 75 MPH crash. Since power is energy per unit time, from a given corner exit speed a Carrera GT, with about 600 HP will accelerate to double the speed of say, my 150 HP Cosworth Vega in the same amount of time, and it will have FOUR TIMES the kinetic energy. These facts were not lost on me in the years that I actively raced and ran open track events.

I thoroughly analyzed this issue for the Silver State Classic Challenge. At 160 MPH the Saleen Mustang was carrying over 1.5 times the kinetic energy as the Merc at 130, and the Saleen probably did not have as good structural integrity, so the pucker factor was a lot higher in the Saleen, but high pucker factor is part of the psychological reward of racing.

For sure a high powered vintage car is a lot less safe than a modern car because vintage cars were not designed and tested for crash performance, but with the power that some modern supercars have, even meeting DOT crash standards is meaningless. They just won't protect you in a very high speed crash. If you want that kind of power to weight ratio for track events my advice is to get a real race car that meets race car safety standards.

I never felt particulary vulnerable in all the years I hot lapped my Cosworth Vega because it couldn't generate much peak kinetic energy. I never saw more than about 105 MPH at Willow Springs or the Riverside short course (but saw 120 MPH on the long course) eventhough I was turning lap times as fast as cars that were 20-30 MPH faster on the straight.

Many friends asked me if I would ever hot lap the SWC again, as I did back in the sixties when I thought I knew everything, but didn't know squat! My answer was "probably not" - lots of power and relatively lousy brakes and handling relative to the Cosworth Vega, but probably not much quicker lap times. I could cut lower lap times in my CV than any street legal C2 I ever ran across at a track event. Getting through the Riverside Esses a good ten MPH faster made up for that 20-30 MPH deficit at the end of the back straight!

Duke

[Joseph R.]

Re: To race or Not to Race a C 1

After reading the related responses and the "Vintage Corvette Race Cars" link, how does one buy and sell Corvette race cars? I have been looking at a 1970 salvage title Corvette (stripped & some body mods) here in CA. I can't register it or title it without adding a driverain/suspension plus the basic street items such as lights/horn/wipers/etc. The documentation to do this is very extensive and detailed (names/address/DL#'s/SSN's/business lic#'s/etc). So, what does one give or get when selling or buying an off road, race only Corvette?