Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

[David Cohen]

Dear Sir or Madam:

Today I proudly joined NCRS. I recently purchased a 1967 convertible VIN #194677S105578. My concern is that there may be a discrepency between the trim tag and the protecto plate with regard to the interior. If so, it would make me concerned that perhaps the entire car was misrepresented by the seller. The seller did guarantee in writing that the car is an all matching numbers car and I am confident that he will honor that if it turns out that it is not. The trim tag indicates:

E07 (December body build date);
S3151;
Style 67 467;
900AA (Tuxedo Black);
STD (Black Vinyl Int)

The car also came with a Protecto Plate which indicates the following, in addition to the owner's name, dealer name, etc:

402 900 19467S105578.H
V1108HTH A01201W Z
P7T04

My understanding of this information is as follows:

402 900 = Black Leather Interior; Tuxedo Black Exterior

V1108HTH = Nov. 8; 327/350; High Lift Cam

P7T04 = Muncie 4Spd; 1967; December 4th

The H after the VIN indicates Holley Carb; the Z indicates a Dec. build month

A01201W = 3.70 Positraction; December 1st; Warren Motive Plant

As listed above, the VIN Number on the Protecto Plate matches the VIN number of the car, both under the passenger dash and on the engine pad. All of the numbers appear to indicate an early 1967 (December 1966). I don't know enough about the numbers to pin down a precise date in December. My concern is that the Protecto Plate indicates 402 which I understand to mean the car originally came equipped with black leather interior (the car does have black leather interior, which appears to be worn and all original).

Yet, the trim tag STD code would seem to indicate that the car originally came equipped with Black vinyl interior? If someone was going to go through the effort to forge a reproduction trim tag (or perhaps protecto plate), and the effort to get the December dates all in line, it doesn't make sense that they would overlook not matching up the interior codes? Something just doesn't make sense.

I carefully moved the rubber gas neck seal aside and inserted a flex light to see if I could get a glimpse of a tank sticker, in which case I would drop the tank. Unfortunately I was not able to see anything.

Is it likely that the trim tag could read STD and the Protecto Plate 402 without something being wrong? Please advise. This is my first posting and my first C2. I know I have much to learn and greatly appreciate your guidance.

Thank You,
David

[Joe L.]

Re: Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

David-----

Based upon all of the information you provided, I would say that there's a very good chance that the trim tag was originally encoded in error. Mistakes did occur at St. Louis and something like this might very easily have escaped detection in the plant inspection process. Even if it had been detected there, it might have been regarded as too insignificant an item to correct.

I realize that these sort of things creeate consternation in an owner's mind and there's always the worry regarding the effect on judging or other "authenticity" considerations. However, I think that this discrepency could well be "original".

[William C.]

Re: Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

Borrow or spend the 50 bucks for the NCRS Trim tag book for these cars. There is plenty of info to determine if the trim tag is a genuine unit, and if it is, the chance of it being original to the car goes up dramatically, in which case i would leave it be...

[mike cobine]

Why would anyone fake a leather car

as a standard vinyl car?

Since it seems nearly everyone sticks leather seat covers in their "restoration", I'd be inclined to think the POP was faked.

But odds are it is a factory quirk.

[mike cobine]

Re: Why would anyone fake a leather car

I meant to say I'd be inclined to think the POP was faked rather than the Trim tag, since it is to the advantage to have the leather over the vinyl.

However, rereading your message that the leather is there and looks old, then I'd tend to believe the POP. Still, restorations have been going on for 30 years, and someone could have put leather in 30 years ago, which would look old today. But I doubt they had a means to fake a POP then.

[Larry S.]

Re: Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

Welcome to the NCRS and the tecnical forum,Congradulations on your purchase,

I had the leather interiour of my 1967 Cadillac redone in 1996 (only 9 years ago) and they have a real nice patina to them appearing as they if they were original to the car. This is only after 9 years and collector car type use.

Just remember if a car was restored in the mid eighties that was twenty years ago allready,So when you look at a high quaility restored car done 20 years ago the restored or replaced parts start looking like they are original equiptment.

And sorry but I dont put too much weight in the term numbers matching anymore,I used to think it meant "gaureenteed,definately,the original motor that the car came from the factory with"

Now I know numbers mathing may be used as a marketing term used by used car salesman to mean they have a correct motor in the car.

Sorry I could not answer your questions,
I have heard alot about the trim code book and will be ordering mine shortly

[David Cohen]

Re: Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

Thanks everyone for the information. I only knew about the NCRS judging manual and didn't know about the trim book. I ordered it last night and am anxious to receive it...hope it arrives is less than the 30 days the confirmation message indicated I should allow for delivery.

Last night I checked a few other numbers on the car to see if they might provide more insight. In addition to the numbers of the pad matching the protecto plate, the engine casting number is correct and does not appear to have been altered. Also, the transmission assembly date matches the transmission information from the protecto plate - PT704. At this point, I'm not sure if there are other numbers on the car that would help provide additional insight into the issue.

I will happily provide an update to this thread as soon as I receive the manual and compare the trim tag against the information in the manual. Also, I just began the process of tracking down prior owners (other than my seller) and will see what that provides.

Respectfully,
David

[Wayne W.]

Re: Trim Tag/Protecto Plate Guidance Needed Please

There are differences in real leather seats and the reproductions of long ago. I agree that the old reproductions are good and probably look like originals today. You might want to post us a picture of the seat covers so we could evaluate them. Show the panels at the rear of the seat bottom near the latches. Also you should be able to tell if they have ever been changed by the attaching hardware on the bottom.