Head gaskets

[Lonnie Johnson]

Just getting ready to put the heads back on the '62' and am a bit uncomfortable with using just those steel head gaskets with the raised sealing ribs around them without some sort of sealer. Anybody out there have any advice? It looks as if there was a blue colored sealer on the block when I scraped and cleaned it off.
Thanks,
Lonnie

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

Lonnie,

A light coat of silver paint on each side of the gasket is all that's required. If you have straight, flat and reasonably smooth deck and head surfaces, you're gaskets will last for many decades. Both of my 63's still have the original 40+ year old steel gaskets.

Michael

[Scott Marzahl]

Re: Head gaskets

If there was blue coloring on the heads, that sounds like the previous ones were the teflon coated Fel Pro gaskets which are the best head gaskets to use if originality is not a concern.

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

Quite possible that you are correct. Could you explain why the comp gaskets are better? Thanks...

[KEN BUTCHER]

Re: Head gaskets

I used the all steel gasket like the original and had no problem.

[Joe L.]

Re: Head gaskets

Michael-----

The Fel-Pro PermaTorque Blue gaskets offer a pretty "bullet-proof" seal under just about all conditions. The copper wire ring type (some use a steel wire ring) also prevent brinneling of aluminum blocks and heads. In addition to everything else, these gaskets can be used if the block deck and/or cylinder head surface is not perfectly flat.

The Fel-Pro PermaTorque Blue have been used in racing applications for years. In fact, I believe that they were the "standard" for NASCAR for many years. As of lately, the MLS (multi-layer steel) gaskets have replaced them. These are the "state-of-the-art" gaskets available today. Originally, they were developed to address the sealing problems encountered with many foreign engines. However, they're coming into the main stream now because they're so effective.

I had some problems with GM shim steel type gaskets many years ago (not originally installed ones, but ones that I used building engines). I used to like them, but I gave up on them, both the carbon steel and stainless steel varieties. I went to PermaTorque Blue and NEVER, EVER had a problem again. These are expensive gaskets. They cost about $40-50/EACH. I think they're worth it, though. However, I'm using MLS for the "ZL-1". These are even more expensive (about $100/EACH), so we'll see how they do.

The steel shim-type gaskets are no longer available from GM for small block applications. You can still get them in the aftermarket if you specifically ask for them. They are also sometimes included with "low budget" engine overhaul rebuilding gasket kits.

All of the engine rebuilders and custom engine builders I know of today use some sort of composition gasket. Not the Fel-Pro Permatorque Blue, though, unless you specifically ask for them and pay for them. If you ask for steel shim type gaskets, some engine builders won't guarantee the engine if you subsequently have a gasket failure.

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

I agree, the new Fel-Pro gaskets do work well, and if either the block deck surface or cyl head surface are a bit less than flat, straight/true and smooth, the Fel-Pro would be my first choice. Also, many engines today use aluminum heads which would require the use of something other than the conventional steel gasket.

The comp gaskets also work well with reverse cooling but were a definite negative with a conventional flow system. The comp gaskets would insulate instead of transfer cyl head heat and chamber temps were notably higher with all else being equal. (many many dyno runs back this up) I remember when Yunick was playing with this years ago also, and discovered this fact. His back to back test runs with steel vs comp gaskets proved this.

I've always been in favor of minimum piston to cyl head dim's and the comp gaskets definitely leave quite a gap at their .035-.040 thickness. The original steel gaskets were roughly .016-.019. It doesn't sound like much but it is a critical dimension, for a whole list of reasons.

Another negative is the fact that when thicker gaskets are used, the exact position of the cyl heads has moved outward, even if only slightly, which can cause problems with intake manifold alignment. The intake manifold now has to streach slightly to bridge the gap. If either the block or cyl heads have been machined, the thicker gaskets would be a plus but with original dimensions, it could cause a bit of an alignment problem.

But most of all, they're not stock and original. For restoration purposes, I would never even consider anything other than the correct original steel shim gaskets, even if they do last only 40 years.

Michael

[Verle R.]

Re: Head gaskets

Michael,

I just removed the heads from a 63 small block that had never been apart. The owner brought it in because it had started running bad. The original steel shim head gaskets were rusted out in all water passages and had finally rusted through in one small place into a combustion chamber. The result, I'm sure, of not changing antifreeze per recommendations.

The end result is a complete engine rebuild. The bottom end is in excellant shape. The cam, cylinders and heads need a lot of help.

Verle

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

Thanks Verle, that's interesting. So, if the owner would have changed the coolant more often, the gaskets would have lasted, possibly 50 years, instead of just 42.

Hope the block deck and cyl head gasket surfaces are ok.

[Verle R.]

Re: Head gaskets

If the owner had done proper maintenance who knows how long it would last.

The block deck and head surfaces appear to be ok.

It was just a thought for everyone with that old, untouched car.

Verle

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

I get nervous when I think about things like that. Hate to admit this but I haven't changed the PAF in either of my 63's for several years. Been at least six years for sure. Not a good thing.

[mike cobine]

Re: Head gaskets

But when they are sitting in storage, it doesn't much matter, does it?

Or is that one in Chicago not in storage?

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

Both the 63's are in storage in Illinois Mike. One hasn't run for three years, the other hasn't run for over 20 years. I'm pretty sure the one that's been sitting for three years is ok but I don't even want to think of all the things that are wrong with the other one after all these years.

[mike cobine]

Re: Head gaskets

You should ahve sent me some keys and I'd have dropped in on them while I was there last weekend. I'm going back up the last week of July, but won't have a trailer or tow vehicle then.

But three years, heck, that one can drive. I'll slap a FL tag on it and drive it home for you.

Provided it was running ok when you put it away, the only thing to watch for is an oil change, new belts, new hoses, new coolant, and go. Actually, you can get away with an oil change, but if it has been a lot of heat, you could lose the belts on a trip like that. (Ask me how I know.)

[Michael H.]

Re: Head gaskets

Actually, I considered driving it down here but I've since changed my mind. The car still has the original radiator and several other "important" original items that could definitely be a problem if they fizzle in the middle of bfe.

Three years ago, I drove the 66 big block car down here from Illinois and lost a spindle brng near the end of the trip, just past Ocala. Kinda learned my lesson on trying to drive these cars across the country like I once did. The cars,(and I) were a lot younger then.