Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

[David D.]

Joe,
Couple questions...told on another forum that you be da man for helping me with confusion on some part numbers....
I am looking for some engine parts 63-64 327 x 365hp motor....(NCRS born on date is 11/19/63) I have several p/n's for each, but can't tell which is correct, or a suitable replacement.

Example:
1) Water Pump (Have 3 p/n's 3859326, 3998206, 3839175)
2) Harmonic Balancer (8") (Have 2 p/n's 3817173, 3963532)
3) Thermo Housing (Have 2 p/n's 3827368, 3827370)
4) Air Cleaner (Have a p/n 6419921)
5) 6 qt Oil Pan (Have 2 p/n's 3820001, 359942) (service Replacement?)

BTW - Know where I can get a standard bore 870 block, correctly date ???

NCRS # 43184

Thanks in Advance

[mike cobine]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

There is a 1964 327 on eBay now. But it is .030 over. It is going to be hard to find a standard bore that is in good enough shape to use.

And finding the 365 hp code will be harder.

There is a guy on eBay in Chicago that sells lots of blocks and he will stamp what you want. Makes me wonder.




1964 327 on eBay

[Michael H.]

(Message Deleted by Poster)

Message Deleted by Poster

[John H.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

You need a '63-'64 Judging Guide - it will answer almost all of your questions.

[Joe L.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

David-----

1) Water pump----the original waterpump CASTING number used for your application was either GM #3839175 or GM #3782609. It's also possible that casting GM #3859326 was used, but I really don't think that these were ever originally used for a 1963 application. I won't rule out the possibility, though. There's no way to know, for sure, which actual casting was used for your, particular, engine. Any of the 3 listed above are considered "correct". No other casting is considered "correct". Whichever casting was used, it had a 1/2" NPT tapping on the top bypass boss; it DID NOT have a 3/4" NPT tapping;

2) Harmonic balancer----GM #3817173. Not all of these are the same, though, as this balancer has been in continuous production over the last 44 years and remains available from GM. The original balancer used for your application had the part number cast on the front of the balancer (not visible with pulley installed) AND had reinforcing ribs ("fins") on the rear of the balancer hub section. Current production have neither of these features and the face of the balancer hub is otherwise configured somewhat differently (not visible with pulley installed). NO other balancer part number is correct for the application other than GM #3817173;

3) Thermostat housing----GM #3827370. This is a cast iron, "straight neck" piece. It has the part number embossed on the top of the piece. Reproductions of this part are manufactured of stainless steel; originals were conventional cast iron. Stainless is better, functionally, but not correct;

4) Air cleaner------the original air cleaner ASSEMBLY was GM #6418317. This is a fairly "moot" point, though, since the air cleaner assembly part number is nowhere to be found on the unit, itself;

5) Oil pan------original was a "6 quart" oil pan of GM #3820001. The 1975 SERVICE replacement for this pan was GM #359942. Both pans are identical EXCEPT that the 359942 has the 75+ style front oil pan seal radius (2-3/8" as opposed to 2-1/4" for original pan). This difference is virtually impossible to detect with the pan mounted on the car. The 0.41" thick front oil pan seal must be used with this pan rather than the 0.22" thick original seal. Otherwise, all pan gasket components are the same. Neither oil pan has the part number stamped on them, so, unless they're NOS, in-the-box, there's no way to ID these pans by reference to part number.

I have no info on a source for an '870' block.

[David D.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

Thanks to all who replied

Joe L. - Special thanks for sharing some of that knowledge others claimed you'd be able to provide me, if I posted here. Only question, is that they said your response would be within 30 minutes.....??? Kidding of course

Just a follow up- You stated
3) Thermostat housing----GM #3827370. This is a cast iron, "straight neck" piece. It has the part number embossed on the top of the piece. Reproductions of this part are manufactured of stainless steel; originals were conventional cast iron. Stainless is better, functionally, but not correct;

I thought my Thermo housing was supposed to be Aluminum, being the intake is Aluminum 3844461. do you have a correct p/n for that application ? I didn't know, til ya told me, that 3827370 was cast, but I guess I certainly could check out a Stainless one as an option especially if better functionally.

Again.....THANKS
David

[Jack W.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

just like we told ya, right? Isn't that Joe L guy amazing?

Anyway, the t-stat housing used with the SHP applications is not aluminum, perhaps you have this in mind because you have seen what appeared to be aluminum looking t-stat housing on aluminum manifold applications, like your 3844461 (such was also used for the 65 SHP, so I have one of those too). No, it is still cast iron, but it gets painted silver in this SHP application (or should I say it often does). goes on with nuts on studs, not bolts.

[Joe L.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

David-----

Many GM aluminum manifolds, particularly of the 63-65 period, were equipped with cast iron thermostat housings. It might seem a "contradiction", but that's how it was. By the same token, many engines with cast iron manifolds originally used aluminum thermostat housings. So, it was a "mix-and-match" type of thing.

The original cast iron thermostat housings, including the GM #3827370, were painted with aluminum paint when installed on an engine with an aluminum manifold. The stainless steel reproduction appears pretty much the same without the need for paint. Plus, it will never corrode as is typical for thermostat housings.

Also, one of the waterpump numbers that you mentioned in your original post, GM #3998206, is a SERVICE waterpump PART NUMBER. This pump was a 55-70 Corvette (and, 55-68 Chevrolet) waterpump. However, this number appeared nowhere on the pump; only on the BOX that the SERVICE part was supplied in. For many years, this waterpump used the GM #3859326 CASTING number, although tapped for a 3/4" NPT bypass fitting. About 10 years ago, the casting became an aftermarket, "generic"-type casting. More recently, it was discontinued, altogether.

[David D.]

Re: Looking for Joe Lucia (p/n Help)

Thanks again....my confusion level has been brought back down to what my wife would call a 'Normal' level....

Appreciate all the help

[Page C.]

Water Outlet

Hi David,
Paragon now makes the 3827370 thermostat housing in cast iron like the originals. They list for $55 in there new catalog. I bought one the other week to replace the stainless steel reproductions I had when that was all you could get.
Hope this helps,
Page Campbll