Did an original sidepipe car have the brackets on the body and they just removed them for the sidepipes or did they not have them at all?
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Re: C2 Side Exhaust
The rocker brackets were not installed on side pipe cars. Any evidence of rocker brackets would mean the car had standard exhaust originally. -
Just wonder what they did with
the mis-built units. Those bodies that were built as under car exhaust and the chassis/schedule called for side pipes.Comment
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That didn't happen...
The N14 (side exhaust) option affected ALL of the major feeder sub-assy lines and its presense/absense needed to be disclosed on the applicable broadcast sheets....
The body boys needed to know they should save $$$ and not install the hangers beneath the sill plates, they needed to know they had to make the body clearance 'cuts' for the pipes and they had to know which rear valence panel (with or without through frame exhaust holes) to install prior to body paint.
The chassis line guys needed to know about the transmission exhaust hanger, radio ground straps, Etc. So, everybody from the 'git go' was swinging on the same vine regarding the car's final exhuast configuration....Comment
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You play out a wonderful scenario, Jack.
but in a not so perfect world of automotive assembly, it doesn't always go as planned. Having spent 31 years in an assembly plant, part of the time as one of the "expediters" that got these kinds of screw ups out the door and thought nothing of it.
Serial numbers on the units all correct and scheduling rotation numbers correct but:
red front ends and the body green
427 engine in place of base v-8
wood grain front end with single color station wagon body
body built for air, engine non-air and vice-versa
convertible body sitting on a sedan frame.
Plus, wrong wheels, tires, steering columns, glass, interior trim, instrument panels wrong, dual headlight front ends on single headlight models,and the list could go on and on.Comment
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Re: You play out a wonderful scenario, Jack.
Geez, Mike - I can't imagine how any of that could happen Kept us busy on the last day of production for yard "zero-out" before Christmas, didn't it?Comment
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Yeah, X-mas shutdown and balance out both! *NM*
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Re: You play out a wonderful scenario, Jack.
Good point Mike. These things happened often at assy plants, including St Louis. In fact, I happen to know of one VERY well documented 67 car that was ordered with side exhaust but delivered with chassis exhaust. The side exh system was even listed on all of the original paperwork.
If a body begins assy and someone "misses" the side exh option on the broadcast sheet, the rocker mldg brackets would have been installed on the bird cage. Somewhere along the body line, the problem would have been caught and one of three things happen. Either the body is pulled off the line and corrected, (VERY rere occurance) the somewhat completed car is sent to repair after body drop, or the build continues as is, with the complete incorrect exhaust system installed.
Pulling a body off line for repair/mod is a major disruption for scheduling and it definitely didn't happen often. Some of the reasons a body may be pulled off line before it goes into paint would be an excessively poor panel fit or some other serious flaw that would be totally unacceptable and impossible to correct before first prime. This would NOT include the missed side exhaust option.
Sending the somewhat completed car to repair after body drop, but before it continues on it's way to final, is another option. This was common. If a worker in the body or chassis line had difficulty installing a part or noticed some problem, he would tag the item and send the job on it's way down the line. It would then be sent to repair to correct the problem but an item as difficult to change.
The third choice, "ship the unit as assembled", was the most common if the problem was not easily corrected. In the case of the missing side exhaust, that is exactly what would have happened.
The other part of this is the fact that you can't install a chassis exhaust body on a side exhaust frame. (well, you can, but this would not have happened at the plant) Fortunately, there were people that constantly checked the nearly completed body assy's and if there were problems, just like this one, the chassis line was informed and changes were made to their build sheets. Fortunately, the chassis wasn't even near starting it's run down the line at this point so corrections/adjustments can be made with no problems.
As Mike mentioned in his post, these were not isolated instances, at all. In fact, it was very common. Cars would arrive at dealers with incorrect radios or interior colors and even totally incorrect engine or transmission options. Most often, the deletion or substitution would be shown on the window sticker/invoice but it was also common to have doc's that didn't exactly match the car as delivered.
Now that I've said all that, I can't wait to see the flood of genuine big blocks and FI cars, with paperwork for a 300 HP, show up on ebay.
MichaelComment
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Re: You play out a wonderful scenario, Jack.
Mike, I worked at a GM plant as an Industrial Engineer and once saw a Pontiac come down the line as a two door on one side and a four door on the other! There was a foul up on the "side frame" line that loads the quarters. The error was caught before the paint shop and taken offline and cut up for scrap.
DonComment
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Hum....
I grew up in Detroit and dad worked for the 'competition' (Chrysler). We all heard the horror stories of this/that SNAFU and accept the fact they DID happen.
But, on the judging field, we work against 'typical factory production' standards placing the burden of proof on the owner for the expection(s). So, to answer the original poster's question, I simply told the truth...
There WAS a broadcast system. Side exhaust cars were built from the git-go to support N14 option. There was NOT a 'hack' station on the line cutting off perfectly good rocker panel hangers welded to the sill plate.
Bring such a car to an NCRS judging meet and expect to meet the buzz saw of a full deduction for the exhaust system and perhaps other related components!Comment
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Re: Hum....
I recently purchased a 67 side pipe car with a tank sticker that had N14 option on it. I heard there is a 7 step method that judges use to determine if they are original. Does anyone know these, or if they are archived ??Comment
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Re: You play out a wonderful scenario, Jack.
Mike,
------Doubt if you will remember Jans company car back in the day (Chrysler Corp product). The front was a Horizon and the back was an Omni. Stretch coined the name "Horomni" and it stuck for the entire time she drove the car. With that snafu duly noted the car was a great little car. At the moment I wish we still had it for the gas mileage alone..........Bill SComment
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Horomni
Bill,
I don't remember the car but I do vaguely remember the story. Was that because the nose was replaced because of collision damage or was that a Friday car?Comment
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Re: Hum....
"There WAS a broadcast system. Side exhaust cars were built from the git-go to support N14 option. There was NOT a 'hack' station (EDIT: "how do you know this, Jack, you could only know what the AIM says unless you were there") on the line cutting off perfectly good rocker panel hangers welded to the sill plate".
That's what I was telling you, Jack. There was a broadcast system which worked perfectly well until the Human Element got to tampering with it. And don't ever think for a moment that there wasn't somebody like me who ran a "hack station" that kept a job running throught the system, one way or the other, without disruption to production. There were MANY of us and we were very good at what we did. Getting production. That's what we were paid to do.
I've been in one Chrysler assembly plant, two Chevrolet assembly plants and maybe ten Ford assembly plants. There used to not be a whole lot of difference in the way they operated from what I could see. And, I used to look back in the shadows of the operation and talk a lot to the ones on the line who KNEW what went on.
As for your answer to the orignal post, I think you answered from a judging standpoint, not reality. Two different viewpoints, two different answers.
'nuff said on my part.Comment
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Re: Horomni
-----Nope, Mike, We picked it up from the dealer, brand spankin new.........Bill SComment
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