C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

[Gerard F.]

on this engine pad from my 67/327. I know there is a few scratches near the date code where I cleaned off some paint which got under the masking, but I can't see any broach marks near the VIN.

How would this engine pad fare in Judging with the few paint spatters left on it.


Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Geoff C.]

[mike cobine]

Re: Looks good to me

Agreed. You have to take in the whole picture of the car to determine originality. The engine could have been rebuilt and the decks cleaned a bit too far out. Remember, 25 years ago, the broach marks were meaningless even if original numbers were understood.

[Donald M.]

Re: C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

Jerry, My '67 300 HP pad looks very much like yours. I had the engine rebuilt about 12 years ago and many but not all of the broach marks are either gone or difficult to see. The stampings are fine. You can use a rag and some lacquer thinner to clean of the remaining paint. Also, be sure to put a thin coat of light household oil on the unpainted pad to to prevent rust from forming.
Don

[Brian M.]

Re: C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

The broach marks on my 67 327/300 are very light but obvious under magnification.

[Mike E.]

Re: C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

Don't forget--broaches are machine tools that wear, also. Their cutting surface, when new, produces a slightly deeper series of longitudinal marks than when it is worn. One size does not fit all!!--you can't just look at one pad and say that they will all be identical.
On the other hand--one direction fits all!

[Michael W.]

Re: C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

My experience with industrial size broaching machines is the opposite- fresh cutting blades produce little or no tool marks, worn blades leave deep ugly grooves.

To me the only TRUE indicator of an original engine is to see the stamping pad of the engines produced immediately before and after the engine in question. They should all be very very similar.

[mike cobine]

Small problem is that you can't know which is

the one before and the one after.

The partial VIN is NOT an indicator of when the engine was produced. You have to find ones with the same casting date and same assembly date and then you are close, but how many thousands of engines did they produce off that line in a single day?

And how many engine lines were actually running? So even with the same day on casting date and assembly date, how do you know that any two engines came off the same machine?

I've not seen the broaching machine, but my understanding is that it is huge. Sounds like it was designed to cut lots of engine blocks at a time, so even then, were they cut in single file order or placed in several spots so that multiple blocks were cut in a single pass?

[Jack H.]

There's an older article in Restorer...

that showed the broach machine at Flint and gave a nice tutorial on how it cut the block's upper and lower deck surfaces in a single pass. If you have the Complete Restorer CD, you might want to search and read the article...

On the depth of broach marks, not only was the freshness of the cutting blades a factor, but the specific composition of the block's cast iron and how 'fresh' from casting it was were factors too. Some believe the loci of broach mark concentration + depth was slightly different for Tonawanda blocks (foundry and final assy in a single complex) vs. Saginaw/Flint products (block cast in Saginaw then shipped 40-miles south to Flint for final assy). But, that may be an old wive's tale...

[Bill Stephenson]

Re: C2:67 Does anyone see any broach marks

Jerry,

-------Not that its a problem, but the two 6s are interesting. How often do the gurus say this happens???.........Bill S

[Gerard F.]

Two 6's

Bill,

That is interesting, I didn't notice that before. The second 6 in the date code almost looks like a small b.

I'm sure that this is my original engine, and it hasn't been rebuilt in the 37 years I've had the car. It is also unlikely that my room-mate original owner would have rebuilt the engine with less then 24,000 miles. His warranty and maintenance record does not indicate anything major.

Would like to hear from the gurus on the two 6's.

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Donald M.]

Re: Two 6's

How about an inverted "9"? Seems more likely as it's a number. Would not a small"b" have a "straight" back?

[Gerard F.]

Could be, Don

But the back looks straight to me, and the loop is smaller then the one on the 6.
How does the character set compare to yours?

Jerry Fuccillo

[Donald M.]

Re: Could be, Don

Jerry, I don't have a "9" or a "6" in my eng. no., so I can't compare it with your stamping. I don't believe that lower case letters were used at all on the engine line, just upper case for engine application (HE), plant code (V).
Don

[Rick S.]

Re: Could be, Don

Jerry,
My 67 327/350 has one 6 in the date and it looks like the second 6 (weird one) in your stamp pad.
Rick