65 396 BUILD DATE

[Ken A.]

Re: Clems 396

We've all see pictures of dozens of Corvettes parked in lot waiting to be shipped. The assembly date could be a couple of weeks before the shipping date I would think. What's the relationship between the vin # and the actual date the car rolled off the assembly line. It takes a few days to assemble each car, so when is it given the vin or does it matter? I assume the production numbers were from the vin's as they rolled off the assembly line, not when the paperwork gave the vin to a given job number or chassis. Maybe these are stupid questions that everyone already knows but me.
Ken

[Clem Z.]

i could not afford a camera and a corvette

at the same time. it was either buy gas or buy film

[Mark S. Lovejoy]

Re: But...

Jack,

The NCRS TIM&JG says L78's before 16,200 had the straight upper radiator outlet. Are you suggesting that there may be an ERROR in NCRS publications?

My L78 is 15055 (April 13th '65) and needs a radiator. I've been saving my pennies for a new Dewitts and think I need an early one. Do you have other information? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, this is a legit question.

Thanks,

Mark

[Michael H.]

Re: But...

Mark,

I don't remember if the 14,971 car had a 1st design radiator or a 2nd design but I do know that it was the original so if you/someone has the "Corvette Restoration, State of the Art" book handy, there should be at least one pic showing the radiator. Since your 15,055 car was probably built one day after the 14,971 car, I would think the radiators would/could be the same design.

Michael

[Patrick H.]

Re: But...

Believe it or not, no pics show the radiator. Just went through the book 3 times.

Patrick

[Michael H.]

Re: But...

Thanks Patrick. I'll try to dig out the original pic's of that episode and, hopefully, there's at least one shot of the radiator. I should remember which radiator was in the car, it was only 30 years ago. Wonder who owns that car today?

[Wayne K.]

That car was a beauty Clem. You should have.....

listened to Mrs. Clem and kept it.

[Jack H.]

OK, a few more words...

First, you're reading the NCRS Judging Guide wrong regarding the change over in BB radiators. Let's take it nice and slow...

"...The change over to the second design occurs at APPROXIMATELY VIN 16,200..."

Emphasis in all caps was added to highlight the keyword.

The straight neck radiator (3005936) was VERY quickly superceeded by the curved neck radiator (3007436) that was used on the lion's share of production. If you crack your copy of the '65 AIM to UPC L78, Sheet B1, you'll see the call out for the radiator as Item 10 and see it's the curved neck version PN 3007436.

Now, walk down to the Revision Record and you'll see Item 10 was changed on AIM date 2-11-65. That said, the only straight neck radiators roaming around would bear Harrison production date stamps of A or B of '65 (earlier for intitial engineering prototype cars). Now, what's in my 15778 is a factory original curved neck 3007436 radiator dated C65.

What shows up on what car isn't well understood because the change in radiator PN's needed to be coordinated (rad hose had to change to match) and it'd take someone like Art Armstrong with access to the GM system to enlighten us on how St. Louis actually did the phase-in to burn up the existing inventory of early straight neck radiator/hose components... But, absent that, we know they were mixed on the line in some fashion and the JG book simply says the 'approximate' change point was around VIN 16K.

My gut tells me the JG is being generous on this point. Pull out your copy of Noland Adams' Vol 2 Complete Corvette Restoration book, turn to the last page of his 1965 survey data and scan the radiator/surge tank sheet. Note, L78/396 cars are flagged with an asterisk.

The earliest 396 listed is VIN 113808 and it's wearing a surge tank dated 65C but there's no info on what radiator date code was installed. The next listing is for VIN 115361. That car has a 65C surge tank too but the radiator is dated 65C, well after the change over to the curved neck design. Its 'brother' in the list, VIN 115456 sports a 65C surge tank and its radiator is date coded 65A.

That HAS to be a straight neck radiator because the curved neck unit didn't exist until AIM date 2/11/65! Bottom line, I've yet to see a real McCoy, early 3005936 straight neck radiator dated after Feb of '65 and the AIM drawing history seems to support this. Plus, there's survey data to support both straight neckers and curved neckers coming off the St. Louis line mixed as early as VIN 115XXX.

[Mark S. Lovejoy]

Re: OK, a few more words...

Thank you Jack, very well written and informative.

[John H.]

Re: Clems 396

Ken -

The VIN on midyears was assigned (and attached) at the beginning of the Trim Line, at which point the body was "locked in sequence" in the assembly system. Cars were normally shipped the same day they came off the line or the following day unless significant repair was required.

[John H.]

Re: But...

The "shipper date" at the lower right corner of the Car Shipper indicates the date the form was computer pre-printed, not the date the car was built or shipped; the window sticker, Car Shipper, and "Corvette Order" were all printed at the same time, before the car was built - typically two to five days before the car came off the line. That's why the last six digits of the VIN are hand-stamped (not pre-printed) on those documents - the car hadn't been built and the VIN hadn't been assigned when they were printed.

Other than the handwritten dates on the shipper copy for a factory delivery (like Clem's), the only document for a normally-shipped car that shows the actual shipping date is the dealer Wholesale Invoice.

[Patrick H.]

Re: But...

Hmmm. Just heard about the car, but you think I can remember where it is....

Not even at 37 11/12 years can I recall that. Rats.

Patrick

[Art A.]

Re: OK, a few more words...

Jack, I can't do it until next week, house full of company, but I will look at the NPC's and see if I can help out with this subject.But I would caution you that using the AIM revisions and/or the dates is NOT a good way to determine production parts sequence dates. They did not necessarily have a close relationship with a parts releasing.
Secondly, are you sure that the Revision Record you see (Item 10) is the last revision? .............never mind, I'll answer that question---------------NO! The AIM's you have, that everyone has, are NOT COMPLETE. They were copied from GM but were not a MASTER COPY and there are MANY changes (revisions) that are not shown. In other words, there might be revisions # 11,12,13,14,15 etc for the sheet in question which could put a wrench in your theory.

Art

[Mark #28455]

example - 1969 L88

A perfect example is the 1969 AIM for the L88 option which shows the hood trim was changed from the 427 numerals to an "L/88" sticker (I believe this change in the AIM was in early 1969) yet we are told that ALL L88's actually had the 427 numerals.

Go figure!
Mark