68 Seat Belt Label Question

[Kurt B.]

While attempting to reinstall my seatbelts, I began reading the 2nd Edition Judging & Tech Manual and IF I am reading correctly, my lap belts are really half of a shoulder belt set.
The label on the strap containing the stainless steel buckle reads "Hamill 1968 Model C20 14 E 68
The Judging manual states all C20 labels were affixed to shoulder belts and that lap belts were C11.
Am I reading this correct and does anyone with a more current judging manual have information that is contradictory?
Since 1972 I have been using this as a lap belt as it was installed as such when I purchased the car. Is it possible that this is really a shoulder belt and that someone switched it? I never had a shoulder belt in this car but I am second owner and it could have been removed I suppose. I am puzzled.
Help!
Thanks,
Kurt #26406

[Patrick H.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Kurt,

I'd be 98% sure the manual is wrong on this one. I don't know 68s as intimately as 70-72s (don't take that wrong) but I can't see how a shoulder belt and lap belt could be swapped, for their length if nothing else.

We'll see what others say.

Patrick

[Kurt B.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Patrick,
I agree and I am not one to second guess the GM engineers who have forgotten more than I will ever learn but I have been in the garge all night looking art this and saying "what a dumb setup". It looks to be just long enough to reach the little plastic pocket/holder on the bulkhead and when I study the AIM it looks like when you get into the car you have to sort out spaghetti to get all the belts hooked up. If I am looking at aim correctly there are two buckles and two female latches/receivers per seat. Wouldn't surprise me if previous owner took one out to simplify.
I am also wondering if the date codes on the shoulder harness labels are the SAME date code as the lap belt in each car. In other words, are they a matched set of dates?
Maybe Joe Lucia has some thoughts.
Kurt

[Patrick H.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Kurt,

I know that on my 70 Cutlass, there are 3 dates total for the seat belts. On that car there are 12 total belts, so lots of chance for other dates.

I can't recall what's on the 72.

Patrick

[Rich G.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

My 68 has the original belts. The dates are all the same. I'll note the labels when I take the pics today. Mine is a July 18 trim tag.

Rich Giannotti

[Kurt B.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Rich,
Thank you. I just replied to your other posting via e-mail before I read this one regarding the labels. Much appreciate your help.
Kurt

[Reba Whittington]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Kurt, According to Barbara Spears's book CORVETTE SEATBELTS 1956-1976, C11 is the model for the lap belt and C20 is the shoulder belt. 1968s would be easy to switch because the material and lengths were nearly the same, and there was an separate identical buckle for each.

All belts in the car do not always have the same dates. In fact, I am suspicious when I find four identical ones in a car I am judging. More lap belts were used than shoulder belts; therefore, their bins would be restocked more often.

By the way, if you are preparing this car for judging, the third edition of the manual has been out since 2001 and is quite different in many respects from older the one you cite.

[Kurt B.]

Re: 68 Seat Belt Label Question

Reba,
Thank you fo rthe reply. Your comment regarding the Judging Manual brought up a question that has been in my mind for a long time: What happens when you start a restoration as I did 10 years ago and use the judging manual as your bible (as I did) and then they change the judging manual. It is like changing the playing rules inthe middle of the game. How many times is one supposed to change things on their car to keep up with the changes in the manual. I'm not sure if there is a specific answer to my question, but I must not be the only one who has ever asked. What are your thoughts on this and what if 10 years from now it is learned that my 68 Coupe was built by Ford. (Just kidding).
Kurt

[Terry M.]

[Jack H.]

The hobby/sport DOES have a modicum of...

art to it! We're NOT dealing with a completely solved 'science'. That's one of the reasons the Judging Guide books change over time--we learn new facts. So, while this may be a tough swallow, think of it as a form of duck hunting... You have to lead the target with your aim to score a direct kill!

[Kurt B.]

Re: The state of restoration -- sorry for the leng

Terry,
Valid points. It wasn't the $30 since I purchased 4 of the 2nd edition to keep scattered around rather than just having one copy. It's not the money for the books it's that I thought of the Judging Manual as a "stake in the ground" so to speak against whihc to measure my car whihc was pretty much pristine since I am second owner and purchased it when it was only 4 years old. It's a low mileage car. My mistake was in trying to make the car adhere to the Judging Manual when in fact, in some cases the book may have been wrong because the guy on the assembly line in 68 didn't think along NCRS or restoration lines and used what he had to work with , even if it had incorrect head markings or whatever. Also, I had foolishly removed wear and tear parts and replaced them with generic parts form the local parts store unaware that there were date codes on master cylinders and carburetors and for such things I again used the book to get me back to what I hoped (erroneously in hindsight) to be correct. In any event, having now learned from you that two or three different judges might apply 2 or 3 different sets of guidelines, I am now convinced that I will never have this car judged since the large sums spent on restoration thus far would only result in aggravation and frustration. I guess I did it for my enjoyment rather than adherence to a judging manual or a "standard" that next year might very well be changed. Since the C3s have been around for a while, I had thought by now there would be some definitive standards for them to be judged against, as opposed to a "work in progress".
It really doesn't matter as I love the car, will never sell it, (heck I've had it for 33 years already), and my son can deal with it when it is his turn to own it.
Thanks again for the input; I always come to this board and always learn something here.
Kurt

[Patrick H.]

Re: The state of restoration -- sorry for the leng

Kurt,

After all this work, it's never going to hurt to have it judged. Remember this, the Solid Axle cars have been around a lot longer, and the appropriate judges are STILL learning new things about them. Don't become disgusted now just because the hobby has learned more about your car in the past 10 years or so. You'd rather have us stop learning?

If nothing else, you can always throw out the "But it's a 68" excuse when having it judged. Might cover some errors.

Patrick

[Terry M.]

[Kurt B.]

Re: The state of restoration -- sorry for the leng

Well said Terry. The wisdom of your words dates you, not just the "warm fuzzies" which I also remember since I am not 21 anymore, but a young 58. What you say makes good sense.
I understand that NCRS is coming to Marlboro Massachusetts in the next year or so. I live in the next town and the NCRS location will be less than 10 miles from my home. It would be a pleasure to meet you in person.
Like Patrick said , I can always hide behind "It's a 68"
Cheers,
Kurt

[Terry M.]

Meet in Mass

Let's see if we can both remember as that meet draws closer. I really would like to see your car, wherever it is. I do have a soft spot for early C3s.