vacuum advance for 1111258 TI

[Michael H.]

Re: I quoted the vac can specs from the AMA specs.

I don't remember ever seeing a 201 but that doesn't mean there weren't any. If I did see any, I may have dismissed them as being incorrect. Without all my records in front of me, I'd guess there were mostly 355's or 360's but it wouldn't have surprised me to see a 163.

[Joe L.]

Re: I quoted the vac can specs from the AMA specs.

Duke, et al------

I have a slightly different spec for the 1967 L-71 engine vacuum advance. I have 0 @ 8" (same as yours) but 8 distributor degrees (16 crankshaft degrees) @ 15". So, this is slightly different than the AMA specs you have.

There were only 3 distributors that used this EXACT same vacuum spec in the 63-69 period-----all were non Corvette distributors of GM #1111101, 1111249, and 1111169. According to the information I have, all of these used the GM #1111201 vacuum control in PRODUCTION.

However, there were many other distributors with slightly different vacuum advance specs that also used the GM #1111201 vacuum control. I suspect that there may be factors other than the control, itself, which can change the exact amount of advance that any particular vacuum control will produce.

From my information I note that there was never catalogued in a GM P&A Catalog a vacuum control for either 1967 OR 1968 L-71 applications. The specs for these as far as vacuum advance were slightly different.

1967 GM #1111258------0 @ 8"; 8 distributor degrees @ 15"

1968 GM #1111296------0 @ 8"; 7-1/2 distributor degrees @ 15-1/2"

For 1969, there was catalogued a vacuum control for L-71 applications. That vacuum control was GM #1116163. The 1969 L-71 distributor, GM #1111928, had identical specs with the 1968. So, it can be inferred that the 1116163 would also be the correct SERVICE vacuum control for both 1968 and 1969 L-71.

Checking the PRODUCTION information from Colvin and other information I have reveals that the GM #1116201 was specified for 1967, 1968, and 1969 L-71. Also, as I peruse the PRODUCTION information, I find no case where a GM #1116163 was ever utilized for a PRODUCTION application.

So, here's what I think: I think that the 1116201 and 1116163 may have been functionally identical units. It may be that there was some minor difference between them. FOR EXAMPLE, the '201' included no bushing on the plunger rod whereas the 1116163 included the bushing. For SERVICE, it would be very convenient and practical to have the bushing already installed. For PRODUCTION, the bushing may have been installed at the time that the distributor was assembled. Keep in mind that this is just an EXAMPLE of what the difference could have been; I'm NOT saying that this was the difference.

There is at least one other general example of Delco doing something similar to this. In the case of ignition coils, some were delivered to vehicle assembly including the coil bracket. In most of these cases, the part number embossed on the coil (or the part number derivative embossed on the coil) was the part number for the ASSEMBLY (coil + bracket). In other cases, the coil was delivered to vehicle assembly as a seperate unit without bracket. Then, the part number embossed on the coil was the part number of the coil, itself. The coils, themselves, were exactly the same in both cases. However, the part number on them was different. So, this same sort of thing might apply here with respect to the 1116201/1116263. It's just a guess, though.

[Wayne M.]

That max. centrif. dist. advance range dips

again, per Delco Remy test spec's book. I just used the reference to confirm that the "201" can was used (I assume right from Anderson Indiana production). Double checked the centrifugal numbers, and the adv. range for 3000 rpm is as printed ie., 12.5 -15 cam degrees, which is a lower range than at 1400 rpm (14-16). Noticed that on ALL K66 dist's listed, the max. adv range starts lower than the intermediate adv range. The max has a footnote which refers to that famous characteristic of TI units to decrease 0.5 deg. for each increase of 500 distrib. rpm.

I have several "201"s in the basement. One is on a near-mint '68 L71 distr. 1111296. Another I got in the scrap yard off a passenger car (can't remember which).

Now for the 1116201 Vacuum CAN, the spec's are also in a Delco book DR-324S-1 ('56 thru '63 Supplement) Revised 3-1-68. Inches Hg to start advance, 7-9; for max. adv. 15-15.75 inches Max distrib advance 8 degrees.

Same book, for the 1116168 can: 8-10" start, 19-21" for max adv.; max distrib adv. 11.5 degrees.

The other familiar can (Duke's favorite ?), especially on the 30-30 cam engines, is 1116236, and the spec's are: 3-5" Hg to start, 5.7-8.2" max, 8.2 deg max distr. adv.

[Michael H.]

Re: I quoted the vac can specs from the AMA specs.

I don't mean to beat this thing into the ground but late last night I went through some of my old paperwork from "the old days" and found three examples that were interesting. Three very original cars that I have on file all have the 163 advance unit. One car, a red/red 435 conv #20035, I've known from day one as it was purchased new by a friend and later owned by me. It had the 1116163 adv unit. Another was a very original black/black conv #14477 that I owned in the 70's and it also had the 163. The third is an interesting car that most will recognize as it has quite a history. It's the red/black leather ultra low mileage (7000) conv that was later known as "the bullet hole car" because some time in the late 70's or early 80's, someone put a bullet through a front fender. It was a totally untouched piece when I first saw it and it had a 163 unit.

I'm not saying that this is proof but it certainly is interesting, at least to me. Are there any more unrestored 67 435's that have a 163? Or, should I ask, are there any genuine originals out there that have a 201?

Is this a judged item? If not, I suppose it's pointless to chase this thing but my curiosity keeps me going.

[Michael H.]

Oop's, May Have Just Proven.....

...myself wrong. Just found a 258 distributor that has a 201 vac unit. The only part of the date on the band that was readable was a six and possibly an L.

[Duke W.]

Re: I quoted the vac can specs from the AMA specs.

The '63-'64 AIM does not list vacuum can numbers. Not sure about the other years, but I can't recall it being a judged item on any year, even though the numbers can be seen without removing the dist. cap.

Being as how the 201 and 163 are so close in spec. it's possible that the 258 dist. drawing could show both as acceptable.

Duke

[John H.]

Re: Anyone Have A 67 Service Manual......

Michael -

The '67 CSM doesn't show a part number for the vacuum advance unit for the L-71 1111258 distributor - it just shows the specs; 0* @ 8", 15* @ 15.5". These specs are the same as used on other applications:

Dist. #1111150 - 283/195hp - Chevy II, Chevelle, Chevrolet automatics
Dist. #1111150 - 327/275hp - Chevy II, Chevelle, Chevrolet, Camaro w/K-19
Dist. #1111256 - 283/195hp - Chevy II, Chevelle, Chevrolet Manual w/K-19
Dist. #1111101 - 327/210hp - Camaro
Dist. #1111249 - 327/275hp - Chevy II, Chevelle, Chevrolet, Camaro w/o K-19
Dist. #1111169 - 396/325hp - Chevrolet, Chevelle L-34 & L-36 w/K-19

[Joe L.]

Re: Oop's, May Have Just Proven.....

Michael-----

As I mentioned previously, I would not be a bit surprised to find an original '258' distributor with a '163' vacuum control. While the '201' was used in PRODUCTION for some distributors through, at least, 1971, I fully expect that the '163' could have been used by Delco as a fully approved alternate in any of the cases in which the '201' was specified.

[Wayne M.]

C2 Vacuum Can is Judged Item

per the judging sheets. Also, the '65 Tech Manual lists the vac cans for all engines.

[Michael H.]

Re: Anyone Have A 67 Service Manual......

Thanks John. I emailed a friend that has a VERY original 67 396/325 Impala with low miles and asked if he would send the numbers on his adv unit. Should hear back in a day or two with results. He also has two more spare distributors with the same tag number and will send info on those also.

I see we never did get much response from the 435 guys on this. I suppose they're all scared to reveal their numbers until this issue is settled.

[Michael H.]

Here We Go Again.....

Wayne,

Just wondered, what vac unit does the JG call for on a 65 396? Unfortunately, the parts book is again screwed up for this one and two numbers are listed. In Gr 2.410, the listing is as follows;

65 Corvette (Sp H/Per w/T. Ign)(396)................1116163

65-66 Corvette W/Sp H/Per (396,427).................1115360

Fortunately, the distributor numbers are also listed and the 1111093 is in the group that uses the 1115360 vac adv unit so that would clarify the confusion. Have to wonder what these people were up to when these pages were written originally. Hope I haven't started a whole new discussion on this.

[Wayne M.]

'65 JG calls for "201" on L78 "093" distr.

But the Delco Remy DR-324-S2 (rev Jan '68) calls for 1115355. Then, A.Colvin covers all bases by calling for 4 cans (236 / 201 / 355 / 360).

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 JG calls for "201" on L78 "093" distr.

I do seem to recall there being some discussion about their being something other than the 1115360 on some/all 65 093 distributors. Wonder if that continued for all of 65 or changed before the end of the 65 run? I know 66 425 with the same 093 distributor used a 1115360. This whole distributor/vac adv unit thing is so screwed up in the parts books.

I may start a whole new post on these vac units for 65-67 BB just to get some input.

[Duke W.]

Re: '65 JG calls for "201" on L78 "093" distr.

I'll buy that! The tune-up specs I have for L-78 in Corvette News list the exact same specs as L-71, and IIRC L-78 does not have ported vacuum advance, so that isn't a very good spec. It should have a 12" can.

FWIW '66 L-36/72 has vacuum can specs: 0@6" 15@12", BUT '67 L-36/68 are 0@7", 12@12"

So let's keep the fun rollin'!

What are the OE vacuum can part numbers for '66 L36/72, and '67 L-36/68.

I think the 15@12" can is 1115355 and the 12@12" might be 1115360.

Duke

[Wayne M.]

Delco Specs show ...

Duke

'66 L36 (both points & K66) use the 1115355 can; the L72 (093) uses the same cans as mentioned in earlier posts, as the DR-324S-2 doesn't differentiate between years on a carry-over distrib. number.

The '67 L36/L68 uses the 1115360 (both points & TI); the L71 uses the 1116201.

Delco spec's on the cans: 355 5-7"Hg to start, 11.2-12.7" for max advance; Max distr. advance 8 degrees (+/- one degree).

for the 360: 6-8 to start; 11.3-12.5" for max adv, 6.4 max. distr. adv degrees (+/- 1 degree).