62 with "California Special"

[Mike E.]

It certainly does warm my heart to view ebay 4584097499! This care has the special California option 6 taillights!
In addition to that, with the heavy brakes, special suspension package, and big tank, it has a race history!!!!
And check out the response to the question on the race history---it was extensively DRAG raced (let's see--24 gallon tank, quarter mile = 96 gpm (not mpg)).
I'd give the ad an "A" for creativity! I especially appreciate the "restoration" of the gas tank fill cap.
That's the great thing about ebay--it brings out all these rare cars for us to see!!!!!
I'll take my tongue out of my cheek and be moving on now.

[Dick W.]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Reverend Mike, maybe you need to put on your clerical collar and take confession from this seller.

[mike cobine]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

The problem isn't the way the ad is written, although there are flaws, but it is how some perceive Corvettes. NCRS looks at the history of Corvettes as ending as of the time the car was rolled out the factory door or loaded on the transporter or whatever.
To many others, the history of what happened AFTER that first owner took possession is equally or more important.

While I understand the need for a standard to judge on, and the way it left the factory is about as good as you can get for a standard as dealers could and did do many uncontrolled and undocumented things to cars, the history of Corvette is much, much more than that.

Cases for such:

1. Various racing C1 Corvettes. The significance wasn't that they left the factory like that, but what they did after - Daytona Speed Weeks, LeMans, Sebring, etc.

2. Corvette Grand Sport - not one of them is in their original condition or configuration. Why? Yet, no one questions the significance of each of them.

3. Various GM styling cars - How many did Bill Mitchell put extra taillights in, modified exhausts, special interiors, and so on. They didn't leave St. Louis that way.

4. Various C2 racing Corvettes - there have been several Bloomington Gold Special Collections with these. They didn't leave St. Louis with racing stripes, numbers, and roll bars. How about Penske's '66 L88? What color did it leave St. Louis and what color is it now?

5. Various C3 racing Corvettes - Let's make a list of famous names - James Garner and A. I. R., Owens-Corning, John Greenwood, and so on.

6. Corvette Challenge and World Challenge cars - even though the '88 cars were build by Chevrolet or their vendors, Chevy didn't paint them with team colors and all the graphics.

And NCRS isn't blind to this, as at Disney for the Winter Regional, what did they have inside? - a bunch of old racers.

7. California Special - well, we know that back 40-some years ago, there were a lot of "California Specials" and while they really were not a Chevrolet official option package, and definitely not a St. Louis-deliverable, The Corvette Restorer plastered one of these all over the cover not too long ago. A green '66 coupe, if I remember right.

So I guess the whole point is two-fold:

1. Keeping the “Way it left St. Louis” standard is fine for judging and to build our technical library on to help restorers. It could be the best standard for such.

2. It is time to drop the arrogant attitude that only the “Way it left St. Louis” condition is worth anything, as some of the most valuable and some of the most rare cars are NOT in the factory original configuration, but in the configuration that made them famous, or that helped made Corvette famous and the legend that it is.

The primary thing I see wrong with this 1962 is that it is restored. As such, anyone could have made it today, 5 years ago, or 40 years ago. I would find it much more interesting unrestored so that you could see it was authentic to how it was. This is one thing I really like about Joe’s Daytona car, you can see it is real. No one would do that to a car intentionally today. After it has been seen, even those who are not into all the intricacies of Corvette documentation and such will be able to relate this car as “real” because they saw it while it was old and worn, then when they see it refresh and restored, they will know it is the same, it is real, and it isn’t something that just showed up and could have been “created”.

[Joseph T.]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Mike

I debated with myself about showing the 57 Nassau/Daytona car..in its unrestored condition..even with a second paint over the original race trim white w/blue stripes but the reaction has been overwhelming.

I think we can all appreciate the time, money and effort it takes to restore these great cars..but there is something about an old warrior that can just take your breath away..especially when you think of the time that has past...and the history involved.

As a reward for making the decision to show the car publically in its as is condition...GM authorized an internal search of their archives for pictures of the car.

Last week..I received 600 vintage pictures which included my car and more and 4 vintage films.

Just when you think you have seen it all..the floodgates open up.

I have my own personal opinion about different cars and people..but I can tell you that my attitude has changed dramatically since owning this car.

Everyone..including many of the big names that get bad mouthed..have been helpful...in my research.

I look forward to showing the car as is as I get the chance and showing the pictures upon approval of GM. I had hoped to bring it to Waco.. but something came up. Now I am looking at the Forida meet...in January.

Regarding Ebay.. one needs to be very careful..but it certainly has made cars and parts easier to find.

I guess..I have been more than lucky. In 30 years of Corvetting..I have never been stiffed in getting paid or getting what I asked for.

Save The Wave!

Joe Trybulec
PS..I am working on a nice article to submit to the Restorer!

[Joel Falk]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Simply and well said.

[Mike E.]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Mike--after finding, owning for 22 years, and restoring the 62 Gulf Oil racer, I certainly am very aware of the value of not being restrictive to "as it left St. Louis". Tne issue that I have is with the fact that you can't have it both ways, which it seems to me that this seller is trying to do. (actually three ways--1) "restored" with custom paint, 2) as it left St. Louis, and 3) with a (drag) race history.) And the assertion that this is a "california special" as if that is a factory option that somehow should increase it's value.
I'm going to start advertising "Wisconsin special" in my ads--that means that there is scaly rust on the frame! That's as accurate as his assertion because a) it didn't come that way from the factory and b)it's not limited to
Wisconsin. I'm hoping that that will increase the value. Think it'll work?
Mike

[Mark S.]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Maybe we would want to massage your tagline "Wisconsin special; meaning scaly rust". Some of these Wisconsin cars are protected a lengthy time during the year.

[mike cobine]

Re: 62 with "California Special"

Mike, I knew you knew that the history expands beyond St. Louis. However, many seem to forget that.

The real problem is that word "RESTORE". It seems that every car has to be "restored" when usually they have just been rebuilt.

Also, restore has been changed around in the hobby/business so much, it really is beginning to mean "we rebuilt it to a like-new condition" and not necessarily to a "new like the factory built it".

Part of that stems from restored race cars. Obviously, they are not restored to how the factory built them, with few exceptions. But are they restored, or not? I'd say your '62 Gulf Oil racer is/was restored. But not to factory condition.

Another problem is regional differences, something not seen nearly as much today. California and drag racing was as important back then as a lot of road racing in the East. Yet today, many see road racing as important through vintage racing, but look at drag racing as a bunch of kid hot rodders.

And as usual, eBay ads always stretch the wording in whatever way is necessary to get someone to look. If you don't, you get no hits and you don't sell. I've even been guilty of tossing in the word "Corvette" on a Chevy part just to make the searches hit it. Of course, I do state that it is not a Corvette part, but that is the problem with the eBay searches, and some take it to extreme.

Sometimes I wonder if it is intentional mistakes or they are just idiots. I have seen some Corvette eBay ads refer to how the car is "just like the day it rolled out off the Detroit assembly line".

[mike cobine]

One other thing

half of these really "good" ones are sales people ads. Can you really trust a used car salesman?

(I'm going to get email on that one!)