Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?

[lyndon sharpton]

so were all the 67 L88s made the same day? how many are there now at least 67 of them right?

[Philip C.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?

HI Lyndon I said they begain in Jan Tonys car 9097 last car around 22000. Drew Papsun Has been doing a list of 67 L-88s L-89s and N-03.(N-03=36 gal fuel tank)I think he has about 19 cars for the 67 L-88s, 15 L-89s and Richard Cohens 67 big tank (a small block with air) on his last list,He list cars with credibility! I dont see anybody complaining about phoney 57 AIR Box,FI, early vin 57 4-speed, big brake,big tank,Z-06 small tank, Z-06 conv,Z-06 big tank, 400 air,396,radio heater delete,hard top only,black-red conv,black-blue,KO wheels,J-56,power brake,power steering,leather,repro tinted windows,head rest,red lines,gold lines,goes on and on how many cars retain there orig. options? good, bad or indifferent gives us something to talk about. my two cents Phil 8063

[Richard P.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?

Phil, your point about the stir the Corvette on Ebay has caused relative to the silence about all of the other "non-factory authentic" Corvettes out there is well taken. For many years now the Corvette hobby has been saturated with misrepresentations, outright lies, blatant forgeries, and shameless frauds, so why the outrage all of a sudden? Regarding your other point, that the first factory L88 Corvette was built in Januray 1967, what is the basis of this belief? Is there a documented example of a factory built L88 that was assembled in January '67 (or earlier)? If so, what is the documentation?

[Philip C.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

Hi Rich Tony Delorenzo's car vin 194677s109097 (9,097)car 9,465 last car built in Jan 67. I have photos of Tonys car at Dayona in Feb 67. Tonys dad was the head P.R guy for all of G.M then. Drew Papsuns survey shows no cars to date built before Tonys. He has 19 out of the 20 on his list. Phil 8063

[TED WALTHER]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

GUYS;
The way I have always read it is Don Yenko and Dave Morgan picked up the first 1967 L-88. Sunray ordered a 1967 Corvette coupe(which I have read was originally red with red interior, color of stinger I do not know, but probably black) through Yenko who, using his connections at Chevrolet, was able to get the first production L88 package available. Dave Morgan picked up the car on March 9th 1967. they raced at Sebring 12 hours on April 1st. This has been discribed as a COPO car, if so Tony DeLorenzo's 67 L-88 was a COPO also, but what is the difference, between a COPO and a production car in this case since back in 1967 you had to go into the dealership and order an L-88, and the order was sent to the central office for action. I don't think any of those original 20 cars were produced and just sitting on a dealership lot waiting to be purchased by some customer passing by, so in effect all 1967 L-88's were COPO cars weren't they?
Happy holidays to all,
TED

[Philip C.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

Hi Ted your right Dave Morgan flew from Oklahoma to St Louis (with his suit and tie on besacuse DX had people there) on March 6, 1967. The car was white with red interior and red stripe. He drove it 600 miles to Yenko Chevrolet so they could get it ready for Sebring 12-Hour GP in three weeks. The car was vin194377S112805 12,805 Tonys car was 9,097. The chevy dealers had no idea that this option was available nor could you order a 456 rear, five L-88s had them. I agree with you they were all copo cars, John wiggens order his car thru his dad who worked for cadillac zone office and had it delivered to Rosenthal Chevrolet in Arlington Va. in Feb 67 vin 194377S110055 10,055 the second L-88 (first coupe)Silver with black interior and black stripe. Phil 8063

[TED WALTHER]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

Phil;
This is valuable info, why doesn't Drew Papsuns contact the webmaster and have some sort of L-88 database created here, so we don't have to put up with the fake L-88's showing up and some guy trying to pass it off as real, such as the recent shriners car. This should also include the 1968(80) and 1969(116) model years since these are the easiest to fake because of the larger production numbers, and all the fatory info went up in the fire. It would be so great to sit there find a supposed L-88 for sale, get the vin from the seller, look it up on the list, see it isn't there and say to yourself oh its a fake, and then just ignore it, this way the real L-88's acn continue to gain value, and the fakers would not be making so much $$ on pure lies.
Take care and have a great New Year
TED

[Mark Milner]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

I agree, this would help a lot if the ones known were listed publicly so that people can check instantly.


The list wouldn't have to have names, just the serial number. Of maybe add a state, so that if the number does appear but in the wrong state, you could think a bit harder.


Such would be the "1967 Corvette L88 Coupe - Buy It Now $12,000" scams on eBay.


A simple list, something like

VIN Color Interior State As Of
194377S110xxx White Red Montana 9/15/98
194677S111xxx Blue Black New York 3/25/05

[Dick W.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

I do not think that you will ever see the list published. Some of the VIN's were obtained by stating that they will remain confidential. Not everone want's their VIN(s) spread over the internet. Then there is the liablility when you publish this list that you possibly ommitted a car or accidentially included one that later turns up not being what is was represented as. He has put a lot of work in this and other lists for his Personal information.

[Drew P.]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

Hello Ted,
Please read my user profile. I do many surveys. I have confidental information of owners of large number Corvettes that trust is not to be misused. There is a problem of fraud to misrepresent the truth.
Regards,
Drew Papsun

[Mark Milner]

Re: e-Bay 67 L-88 ?RE Rich #7683

I don't think anyone wants anyone to betray the trust of owners of these cars or any others.

I think both Ted and I suggested going public if that information was available to be public as that would deter fraud.

However, anything collected in confidence of the owners can not just be put out public without the owners' permission obviously. and I can understand why some would be hesitant to let even the VIN be posted publicly. While I doubt that few of these are registered for street use, there is no doubt a title still on many and some would show up in title searches if one wanted to do enough searching. So there is no point in making it easier for someone to bother owners of these cars or any other cars.

[Mark #28455]

who decides what cars are "real"

Once you start a list, do you cut it off at a certain point and declare that all yet unknown cars aren't real? How do you "prove" which "known" cars are real? Where does it all end?

I agree it would be a great idea, but impossible to do with even 75% accuracy. The COPO Camaro guys have it easy because the VIN numbers are public knowledge already.

Mark

[Mark Milner]

Re: who decides what cars are "real"

With the '67 L88 Corvettes, it is easy. After you hit 20, the rest aren't real.

Or are they? Maybe that 20 didn't include early engineering cars, top brass rebuilds, and so on.

It is a dilemma, but it is a start. Otherwise, let them all be real.

Realistically, the only reason you need to know if one is real or not is so you can pay unbelievable money for it, or not pay depending.

Those 20 original L88s were built and sold before most had any idea that they could. So anyone wanting one had to build their own and many did. Take a used '67, buy an over the counter L88, and go play.

When Corvettes return to being about fun and driving, instead of investing, then very little of this will matter.

[Michael S.]

Re: who decides what cars are "real"

Go buy a Shelby American Automobile Club "Registry" and sit down and read it sometime. It is VERY intersting particularly the Cobra section. The different "registrars" publish different levels of information/car history depending upon their own personal level of comfort. For example, the Cobra registrar publishes all the good/bad/ugly. The 65-66 registrar exhibits MUCH more restraint with the public domain knowledge of each specific car and lists a * on cars with a dubious history. My car has the star! SAAC has been dragged into court to defend/refute the validity of particular cars since they are recognized as "the experts". SAAC, like NCRS, is actually a operating business owned by 2 individuals and managed by a board.

As an example, in no case will SAAC divulge the Ford serial number on 65-66 GT 350's. They will only confirm the serial number you provide as good or bad for that particular GT 350 since most of those cars were registered by the Shelby assigned VIN that is different from the Ford VIN. Since the Shelby VIN tags are reproduced and easy to make, the Ford VIN is actually more important as they can then confirm the car as Shelby and the correct Shelby VIN for the car. SAAC can confirm the numbers since they have ALL the original invoices for 65-67 Shebly automobiles.

In this case "most" people want their car listed in the SAAC registry as they believe it lends credibilty to their car. There are others who do not want their name published or the fact they even the fact they own a Shelby known.
Because of the long term involvement of the SAAC principles and the club longevity with this type of information (30 years), the fact that folks like/accept the influence on Shelby cars by SAAC is not suprising.

Although NCRS is also 30 years young, NCRS has not had any involvement in compliling information on individual/specific cars as far as their original build or history. NCRS members maybe, the club no!

In today's world of information theft or perception of theft/problems, I think the only way you will ever get any large scale specific information on specific cars is to do what the CRG (Camaro Research Group) does. That's pick up specific trim tag/VIN/option information here and there as people willing give/provide their information on websites such as Camaros.net and others to help those building a data base. The CRG has information on over 10K 1st generation Camaro's. Only 750K 1st generation Camaro's to go!

Since there is no real way to confirm the information provided by the owner submitting the information in today's world. All the information really can be considered in interesting reading about a cars condition/pedigree at the time the information was provided. Since the hobby is now "All About the Money", most folks will only provide the information that will benefit them the most! Just go read the Camaros.net trim tag section and you will see posts about one specific car significantly changing over the period of 1 year as the car continues to be repeatedly sold on Ebay. Some of the cars will sell 4-5 times in one year and the conditions/options/colors change dramatically!!!!

Of course that NEVER happens with Corvettes!!!!!