question on '78 Pace car

[Barry K.]

A fellow vette club member recently purchased a very low milage, unrestored, unmolested '78 Pace car is great condition.
He's interested in going thru judging to Top Flight the car.
He came up with an interesting question last night:
When he purchased the car 2 months ago the original Pace Car decals were still sitting in the rear of the car and he had them installed. for judging purposes, how are the decals judged? When the car left the factory they put the decals in the back to be dealer(?) installed. Because the car would have left the factory with the decals uninstalled would he get points deducted because the decals are now installed and if so, how much of a deduction would he get hit with?

[Rob M.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

If I understood correctly the car will be judged againt how it would be at the dealer after the normal dealer prep (before additional options were added). I recon putting the decals in place as suggested by the factory would be considered normal dealer prep.

greetings,
Rob.

[Roy B.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Dealer prep ? HMMMM many buyers din' t know what dealer prep was. Or what was done at the dealer, as the Corvette came from the factory is what were told by NCRS is how they are judged. This is where new members get up set by saying that's how they bought it if it has other then Factory items.
Dealers many! Added accessories a proved by GM to get people interested . The 1955 Chevy's never came from the factory with a spare tire continental kits, they were all dealer added which many buyer dint know.
NCRS added the words dealer prep (ONLY) because if not, all Corvettes would look like Sh*t just out from the factory. NCRS is the only organization that I know of that holds to that requirement . If other organizations car clubs required the same as NCRS you would never see any fantastic options or accessories installed in cars that many love.
I love accessories as many know and took the hit under judging rules because I love unusual rare options and accessories in my 55 Corvette and people that have seen my Corvette also do. What many don't know is that they too can add them and still make top flight in NCRS, while so many worry about paint over pray and frame markings to get a top flight.
NCRS is a great organization for restoring your Corvette to know (right & wrong) and still my 55 get top flight.
You don't lose points in NCRS for accessories unless you DRILL holes or replace parts with accessories, you can still show off a GM 12V shaver, engine heater, compass and others.
I feel this way , that when you' v seen say a 55 Corvette at a meet when 29 other 55's are also showing , then you' v seen them all (WHY) because one 55 is identical to all other 55's. RIGHT? Only the color sets one apart from the other. BOOORING.

[Barry K.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

ok, now I'm even more confused.
My understanding, although perhaps wrong, was that the car was judged against how it left the FACTORY, not the dealer.
For example, on the earlier C3's you could order a luggage rack and I thought that was installed by the dealer so if the car went thru judging you would get deductions because of the holes that were than required to install the rack - not a deduction for the rack, but deductions for the holes that were made because of the rack that weren't there when the car left the factory.

Although these decals don't require holes to be drilled of course, it is something that is different than the way it rolled off the factory line since they weren't installed by the factory.

[Rob Dame]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

If they were intended to be dealer installed they would not have been in the back of the car. I believe he should have left them as he found them. Rob

[Barry K.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Hi Rob
yes, perhaps he should have left them but his main reason for buying the car was for his own pleasure and he wanted them on.
it's only recently and after having the decals put on that he has considered putting the car thru judging.

any idea of the point deductions he will take because of it?

[lyndon sharpton]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

thats bull ****! the cars did not come with the hubcaps on them, they were in the car. so would you judge them in the car no.some things you do have judged in the car, but for the most part no.

[Dick W.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

The Judging Reference Manual and the JG & TIM's all basically state the "as the car would be delivered to the customer with normal dealer prep". That is about as plain as you could state it.

[Barry K.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

thank you Dick.
yep, that's pretty plain and straight forward and should cover the question than. I didn't realize the dealer prep was figured in and thought it was as it left the factory.

based on that he should be fine and have no deductions for the decals being installed.
thanks!

[Michael H.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Barry,

My opinion would be, correct for NCRS judging with the decals still in the car.

Trying to determine the exact point in a cars life that should indicate a "completed vehicle", ready for judging, is nearly impossible. If the car is to appear "as delivered" to the first retail customer, any number of things could have happened along that long road, including undercoating, aftermarket radios, tires and a long list of other non original items. Dealers sold accessories that were installed in the service dept of the dealer and many were not even GM or GM approved. That's why it wouldn't be practical, or fair, to pick this point in time for judging.

The last point in a cars life that it was still "original", as far as configuration, would be when it rolled off the transport truck at the dealer but that wouldn't be practical either because some cars were delivered in winter and sat outside until sold. The condition of many chassis components would not be consistant with, say, a California delivery that was sold immediately in July without the salt bath trip from St. Louis.

On the other end of the scale, the only true and consistant condition would be closer to the point in time that the car rolled out the door at the assembly plant, which is, I believe, the way the NCRS judging is done. Most components of every car would look near the same with little variation for winter/summer rollout.

The problem with judging as it would have been at rollout is, the condition of a car is usually a LONG way from what it looked like after the dealer washed it and installed the hub caps, removed the green goonk from the white walls and trash on the carpeting etc etc. This would probably eliminate most of the cars that were driven to events for judging as most would lok as they would have after pre delivery at the dealer.

In my opinion, there should be a "range" of conditions accepted for judging that goes somewhere between rollout and the completion of dealer prep, minus any non factory installed accessories or modifications. This would cover most of the variables possible in transit and storage etc., but would still allow someone to prepare and show a car in rollout condition.

Anyway, to answer your question more specifically, I believe the decals were NOT part of new car get ready and were typically left inside the car. If that's the case, it would mean that points would be deducted at an NCRS event. Interesting question, thanks.

[Michael W.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Dick's answer above ( which is straight from all judging manaul) is correct. There should not be a deduction for having the decals either inside the car or installed on the body panels.

[Rob Dame]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

I'm not sure how the NCRS judges will see it but I saw a 78 Pace Car take a hit at Bloomington two years ago because the decals were on the car. Not sure how much of a hit but it was a hit non the less. I believe the decals were left in the car and it was up to the owner to decide if he or she wanted them put on.

[Donald M.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Mike, I agree wholeheartedly.No deduction! The decal set,which BTW are EXPENSIVE, if you can find them, were discontinued by GM sometime ago. The purpose of leaving the decals inside the car was to allow the retail customer to make the decision as to whether or not to install them since some people would not want the large,flashy decals on their new car. If the customer wanted the decals installed, all he had to do was mention same to the salesman thereby including the installation in NV Prep.

[Mark Milner]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

One dealer I knew claimed to have paperwork from Chevy that said if the Pace Car was to be displayed in the showroom, they were to install the stickers. A person in a club I was in ordered the car, and when it was supposed to come in, the dealer (who was fighting over price - he bought it before they realized there was only one) requested it be left on the showroom floor for a few weeks.

Not having a place to put it right then, he agreed, not realizing the stickers were going on. He then had a fight over the stickers, having them removed and a new set obtained.

Supposedly this Chevrolet paper is what kept him from suing over that, too.

[Patrick H.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

These decals are being reproduced.

Patrick