question on '78 Pace car

[Terry M.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

The Bloomington rules are to judge the car as it left the factory.
NCRS rules (which Dick quoted) include dealer prep.
This is just one of the differences between the two judging systems.

[Tom R.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

You're confused cause the speculators are failing to draw their insights from the 78-79 NCRS Tech manual. This is captured in the BODY PAINT section of Exterior. This section scores 45 for originality and 40 for condition. It states:

"They (decals) were not applied at the factory but were applied by each dealer at the purchaser's request. The decals were placed in the storage area behind the seats prior to shipping and should be made available during judging."

"Deduct 8 points if Pace Car decals are applied or missing."

So its an originality hit if decals are applied. Figure they take up a lot of real estate on body paint. Usually Pace Cars will have the winged tire applied while other decals are still in the box. I would estimated 60-75% of those I've judged have decals in the box (except the winged tire). So as a judge you give credit for those in the box a deduct a couple for the winged warrior tire on the side.

[Kent K.]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Terry --- Not trying to disagree but, when did you ever see Corvettes at Bloomington Gold being judged without wheel covers installed and have you ever deducted points for them installed? In my 7 years judging 53-55 there, we never considered wheel covers being delivered in wrappers in the trunk instead of installed.

Happy New Year
Kent #6201

[Barry K.]

The final answer

I greatly appreciate everyones time and effort in replying.

Since there seemed to be somewhat of a question of correctness still lingering whether the decals were part of normal dealer prep or not I ended up emailing Brian Pearce, the National Judging Team Leader for the '78-'82 model years.

Here is his response:

"Barry,

As I read your e-mail and came to the part about your friend having the decals installed I said a silent "DARN" to myself. Here's how the story went back in 1978, GM felt the some folks might be "bothered" by the gowdy decals advertizing a upcoming car race, so the decision was made to place the decals in a GM box and put them in the rear of the interior along with the floor mats, front spoiler, aluminum wheels center caps. The instructions to the dealer were to "install" these Pace Car decals at the "owners request" and they were NOT to be included as normal dealer prep procedures. That is why you see some with the decals and some without.

Remember that NCRS judges Corvettes based on how the Corvette left the factory in typical factory production requirements, PLUS "Normal" dealer prep. Normal meaning what GM re-imbursed the dealer for performing on their behalf. Now on to the important part (I guess ?), please inform your friend that there will be a minor point deduction for having the Pace Car decals installed on his Corvette. The Judging manual states a 10 point deduction will be taken for Corvettes Decals installed, hopefully your friend did not discard the box the decals came otherwise there will be another small deductiuon from the interior judges as well.

If the Pace Car is everything that a Pace Car should be your friend shouldn't be hurt by these deductions but please let him know what the NCRS standard is so that he doesn't continue to hurt himself in the judging arena.

Any other questions please feel free for either you or your friend to contact me.

Take Care,

Brian Pearce
NCRS T/L "

So, there is my answer. The car will lose 10 points in the paint catagory and possibly a few more points if the packaging the decals came in is not still in the car.
10-20 points shouldn't be all that bad considering he can lose up to 270 and still Top flight.

Again, thanks everyone for your replies.

[Roy B.]

Re: The final answer

And then many wonder why people are so confused , don't we just love it?

OK here is my story when I bought my wife for Xmas 1978 a new silver Anaversory Corvette.
I'm one of those guys that like using a Corvette and not just garaging it to look at. I ordered the 78 with any and all OPTIONS that it could have , PLUS a so called Trailer package. Now it came with heavy 5 core radiator , high amp alternator, thicker sway bars ,heavy shocks, and a air deflector up front under the Corvette NOSE, from the out side looking at a 78 what gives away a silver having the trailer package is the deflector spoiler (black) up front. This is a little un-known item many don't know that (Only that OPTION Corvette will have one)

Now when I took delivery the trailer wire harness was in the back NOT installed or the hitch which I had to order from the parts department.. I had to PAY to have it installed at the dealer, it was not a dealer PREP item paid by GM.
SOOOO where does that leave me under NCRS ruling ??????
Should it not be installed to meet the judges option
If the parts are installed then I lose points? Like the pace car stickers installed??
I was there when it came of the truck, it had window stickers, paper floor mats, plastic steering wheel cover,plastic seat covered, tags here and there. I requested that they all stay in and on so that I could save these things.
SOME one HELP ME should I never let NCRS see this auful Corvette??

[Roy B.]

Re: The final answer

Had this in the clove box.

[Tom R.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents

Roy...thanks for sharing these documents.

I've found it interesting that the retail sticker shows MX1 while the build sheet calls for the M38 auto tranny. The Black book references the MX1 but M38s were the standard equipment.

[Roy B.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents "TOM"

Like many people do DONT believe what you read "completely" as the law in any reissue book like the BLACK book or even the NCRS judging book we use.
That has always been a problem , that's why we get reissue after reissue and why people chang their Corvette to meet NCRS to get a top flight.
If people that really know what was correct left their Corvette as it was , TIME would prove them right.
But I have always been a thorn in NCRS's buttocks over the years because of just this and others, now you no my secret why I never show my Corvettes.
Thank goodness few people ever read my postings

[Patrick H.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents "TOM"

"now you no my secret why I never show my Corvettes."

Seems to me you've shown your car twice in 2005, Roy, and done well. Realize this is far more than most members ever show their car.

Think about it.

Patrick

[Roy B.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents "Patrick"

Your right first time in over 25 years and last time, only because of 50 years for the 55 Corvette.
And I was surprised and thankful that NCRS gave it top flight, the judges were bought off cheap , I saved money.
OK just kidding guys, the judges were vary nice and knowledgeable about 55's, my wife and I had a great time.

[Terry M.]

http://www.bloomingtongold.com/judge.pdf

BTW I can recall at least three times when cars (a C2 and two C3s) showed up with part or all of the factory shipping details in place, and I don't hang around the later C3s, C4s, or C5s where I suspect that might happen more often.

[Roy B.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents TOM

TOM
I also ordered and got the dealer ACCESSORY luggage that matches the 78 silver Anniversary Corvette (silver in color and emblem) 6 piece . No good for NCRS people but neat any way.

[Tom R.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents TOM

Yes Roy...we've exchanged correspondence before and I recall you have the intermittant windshield wiper kit/part. Early 78 did not have this installed and therefore on the retail sticker it became a credit...cause it wasn't working right or something. Later models it became base.

Now what else do you have from the 78 year?

[Mark Milner]

Re: question on '78 Pace car

Since this was written, what, 15 years after the Pace Cars were built, are you sure that is correct? As I said further down, one guy in the local Corvette club back then was going to sue over the decals being put on his car but the dealer claimed that Chevy had paperwork that all Pace Cars displayed in showrooms were to have them applied.

In the end, the dealer removed the decals, buffed the paint back out, and obtained another set for him to have.

I knew another guy who bought 5 of them and resold them. 3 had the decals and were bought off the showroom and 2 did not and had been ordered.

[Roy B.]

Re: 1978 Build Documents TOM

Tom
Nothing just the luggage that I still use today