?Changes to the TIM & JG?

[Daniel E.]

[Reba Whittington]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG?

Errors in a JG and proposed changes are sent to the national team leader for that division. He will gather information to see if a change is needed. I believe this info is listed in the front of each manual

[Mark Milner]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG?

The TM&JGs came about by observing what were believed to be original cars that were unchanged. We all know that with what happened in the '60s and '70s, there weren't a lot of these cars, both through hot rodding and normal maintenance. Often cars were changed that owners thought were unchanged, by dealers and by regular maintenance. After all, they were just cars.

Then of those cars, some made there way to NCRS where they were observed.

Currently, there are around 5000 cars that have been judged, give or take a thousand. That is a very small number of cars compared to how many have been made and are out there. (Probably all 3900 '67 435 hp cars are here and the 32 '67 L88s. )

In the beginning, much of judging was to accummulate data from cars and correct the data, but now, judging is to compare cars to the existing data and correct the cars.

As can be seen here in the archives, the '63 & '64 TM&JG was just released in its latest edition and there are many spots that have raised some concern. It seems that problems reported since the last one have not been incorporated.

It seems that faulty data became the standard back in ancient history, and correct data cannot replace it.

My belief is simple: If you believe it is original and correct, don't change it. If they deduct, argue the point. Take the hit. Whatever, it isn't like they are going to kill you over it. Because one day, maybe 5 years, maybe 20, they will discover "new" information that yours was correct and the TM&JG was wrong.

That is if you want to restore the car to how it came from the factory.

If you want to win a Top Flight, follow the book letter by letter and forget originality.

[Mark Milner]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG? Left out a point

Currently, there are around 5000 cars that have been judged, give or take a thousand. That is a very small number of cars compared to how many have been made and are out there. (Probably all 3900 '67 435 hp cars are here and the 32 '67 L88s. )

I meant to add that if only 5000 cars total have gone through, imagine how small the original sampling was when the TM&JGs were originally written.

Divided evenly, there would have been maybe 140 cars per model year. That is total. Figure 1/4 of that were the basis of the TM&JG or less, so the "rules" could easily be based on 35 cars or less.

[Roy B.]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG? Mark

Your starting to sound like me. I like it!!

[Michael H.]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG?

I agree. In my opinion, if someone needs information about details on their car for correct restoration, the absolute best available is right here on this discussion board. In many cases, the JG is the worst thing that ever happened to many original and correct cars. Get a second opinion HERE before making any important changes on your car.

[Mark Milner]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG? Mark

Does that mean I need to hide my NCRS card from the NCRS police?

What am I saying, what NCRS card? Does anyone have one? My last two Drivelines didn't even have a member number on them.

[Roy B.]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG? Mark

NCRS Card?? I'm #182 and never seen or got one!

[Dennis C.]

There was a period of time...

...if you sent in the requested stamped self addressed envelope, Cincy would send you a membership card. Not sure why one would need such an item, and I haven't seen this offer for quite some time. For many, the judging level card comes pretty close to getting the job done.

[William B.]

When do we get judging level cards?

I recieved a pin a couple of years back. Have been active in judging and seminars, No new cards??

[Dennis C.]

Bill, The last policy I recall...

...they were distributed once a year, generaly around this time IF your judging level increased from 0 - 1, 3 - 4, along those lines. If it only increased by 1/2 level, say from 2.2 to 2.7, you would not recieve an updated card that year. Hopefully, Roy Boy will correct this post if I've got it wrong. Best, Dennis

[Patrick H.]

Re: ?Changes to the TIM & JG?

"If you want to win a Top Flight, follow the book letter by letter and forget originality."

I hate it when someone says this. It's my view that it shows how uninformed one is of the judging process.

I'll be the first to agree that the JG's have errors. But, MOST of the judges understand this, especially as you get to Regional or National meets. In addition, you can miss 270 points and still get a Top Flight. That will cover a LOT of errors, omissions, anomalies wear and tear. Don't be afraid to question or discuss with the judges. I know I've been happy to learn from another member as I'm judging - even when that member is the car owner giving me information. Your seventh paragraph above with your "belief" is, in my opinion, much closer to how it is and should be.

My 60,000 mile 72 received the Bowtie in 2004, and previously in 2003 received a Regional and National Top Flight in the SAME configuration. That's right - virtually all original. I wanted to see if it could be done, and it was done with relative ease. I'd think about a Duntov but it will require doing some cosmetics I don't want to do on a car this nice.

So, it IS possible to remain true to authenticity and receive a Top Flight. 1 or 2 or 3 point deductions for possible anomalies will not a Second Flight make.

Patrick

[Roy B.]

Re: Bill, The last policy I recall...DENNIS

Dennis
I have NO judging points "O" all tho I have judged many times and bend team caption,but that was years ago before this point collection thing. I'm usabley asked to judge if I'm at any NCRS event , I thought they were talking about some membership card!
Don't you worry your self I'm not looking to be or having a judges HAT. As you know only last year have I ever gone to any NCRS meets. I don't like politics and besides I DRIVE my Corvette to much to be at the level of Trailered Corvettes.
I'm not crying , I just take a different road. Best to you as always .

[Dennis C.]

Roy, It is extraordinarily tempting to respond...

...to your post, but this time, think I'll just leave it alone...

[Dennis C.]

Patrick - Well stated. Thanks, DC *NM*