C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

The popular belief is that sintered metallic brake linings pretty much last forever. And my 90K mile '63 is testiment to that - the fronts are original.

But they are definitely worn, and for years, I've been looking for another set of front linings. I was nearly able to grab a set off eBay one day until they went through the roof - the only set I've seen for sale in the past several years.

What are my options here? Is there some source for these? Is there a manufacturer who is manufacturing a replacement? Can mine be re-lined?

If I want to keep driving it safely, the only option I can find is to remove the J65 option from my car.

Pete

[Mike McKown]

I can't help but

another part of the question might be where can you purchase the special pull back springs. I'd like to know myself.

[mike cobine]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Andy Porterfield for years provided J56 pads and I believe had access to have them relined. You would have to check if he still does or not. If so, he can probably get your J65 shoes relined.

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com

Also, I believe that Vette Brakes and Products also had access to get them. I don't know if they still do or not.
http://www.vbandp.com

If you know the material, or not picking and will accept any metallic lining, then you can probably get them relined at many brake manufacturers.

I believe you can also simply replace them with a metallic-lined shoe, however, my experience was that they were nasty cold.

[Duke W.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

I replaced my original J-65 linings, springs, and wheel cylinders years ago at 115K miles with correct GM service parts and silicone fluid eventhough the linings still had some life, and the rebuilt system will likely outlive me, but if I had to redo my brakes today I would go with carbon metallics. Go to:

www.carbotecheng.com

The proprietor is a J-65 veteran.

Measure your drums as my experience is that when the linings are worn out, so are the drums. Replacement drums are readily available on the aftermarket and inexpensive, but the surface needs to be polished to achieve the surface finish specified in the shop manual if you use the OE metallic linings.

If the brake action is good and the drums are worn less than .090", just reinstall them on the same corner with the same shoes. Be sure to mark the shoes and drums so everything goes back in their orignal locations.

Using the base brake spring hardware is okay unless you plan on hot lapping race tracks.

I recall a discussion where the owner had what appeared to be a set of original J-65 linings on a relatively low mileage car. My recommendation was to rebuild the hyraulics and install all the original hardware and linings as they would likely never wear out given the car's low mileages and low mileage accumulation.

Too bad we can't get any credit for J-65s in judging, but since the option is only identifiable by removing the drum - that's the way it goes.

Duke

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

Re: I can't help but

I lucked out on that one. Thirty years ago, when I was first restoring my car, I went and bought all new metallic brake-only spring kits from Chevy. Glad I did! And that makes me wonder where I put all the original springs I replaced. Hmmm.

Pete

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Duke-----

It's not all bad. If you have them and it was discernable, you wouldn't get any judging credit, anyway. You'd only LOSE points if they weren't there. The way it is, you don't lose anything whether you actually have them, or not. Without original documentation there's no way to know that the car originally had them, anyway.

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Thank you! Emails have been sent to all referrals. I will post any responses.

Does anyone out there have a worn out metallic shoe or shoes that I can use as a test subject should someone suggest re-lining? I don't want to use one that has any life left.

Interesting thought - I wonder how many NCRS members may not realize that they have optional metallic brakes.

(the only way to tell that I am aware of is to pull a drum)

Pete

[Gordon Peterson #4961]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

I found out I had them during the restoration years ago when I pulled the wheels. This was confirmed when I met the original owner. One of his first comments was, "Has it still got those awful brakes?"

Incidentally, they are not awful. Mine warm up in ~1/4 mile of normal driving. Then they're just fine! All part of the fun!

Pete

[Duke W.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

The Washburn Team '63 race notes indicate that after unsuccessfully trying to get the HD brakes to work, they ended up with what is essentially a J-65 system.

Back when I hot lapped my car at Kent in the sixties, the J-65s hauled me down from about 140 MPH out of Turn 1 to 80 MPH entering Turn 2 and were always there at the other three heavy braking zones. They work just fine on a race track once you become accustomed to their hot senstivity. They NEVER FADED, and I never lost any pedal travel. One thing about racing or hot lapping is that if you don't have confidence in your brakes, you will either have slow times or you will crash. I was never concerned that the brakes wouldn't be there when I needed them, and they always WERE there.

Once I understood that they need to be "warmed up" (They don't work too well on the first couple of stops when cold.), I never had any complaints including the fact that even at 115K miles the lining segments still had plenty of life left in them.

I don't think disk brakes work any better and that is backed up by GM's test results of the era. Disks are much easier to use because their modulation characteristics are much more linear over the full range of lining temperature. J-65s required you to develop better brake modulation skills, but once you have this under your belt the J-65s are confidence inspiring, easy to live with, and last virtually forever.

Duke

[Mike M.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

the 2003 full chevy pickups came with disc brakes on all 4 corners. the 2005 reverted back to disc up front and drums on the rear. i can't appreciate any difference in the two pickups which are identical otherwise. mike

[Frank C.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

I assume the J65 on a C2 was the same or very similar to the Metallics I had on my '66 Biscayne. I don't recall the option #, but everything you all say about not working cold is dead on. My Biscayne had around 200k on it when I replaced the lining with standard lining (couldn,t afford the metallics at the time-$100+per corner) and used secondary shoes all the way around. These work amazingly well.

[Duke W.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Yes, metallic brakes were also an option on full size Chevrolets, which was the same hardware since the Corvette drum brake system was the same as the full sized passenger cars cars, and I think the option designation, J-65, was consistent across the entire Chevrolet model line.

For about 45 bucks this was the best option bargain on the list if you anticipated and "heavy duty" use, like racing or trailer towing.

Duke

[Frank C.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Duke...My Biscayne was an Oregon State Police car with the 325/396 and TH400. Other than the Police package (heavy duty sway bars,etc) the only options they ordered with these vehicles was the power plant, power brakes and heater. I,m not sure a lot of people knew they also came with a 2mph speedo. I've had this car for over 35 yrs and is the most reliable car I've ever owned. It now has over 500k miles on it and I'll part with it when I depart. It wants to cruise at some MPH way over what the road signs suggest. I enjoy driving it almost as much as one of my C2s.

[Duke W.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Maybe I'm just getting old, but they don't make 'em today like they used too!

Consider how SIMPLE sixties vintage cars are compared to "modern" cars.

I like to compare the cooling system of my '88 190E 2.6 to vintage cars. It has a coolant level sensor in the plastic expansion tank. I've had to replace it. It has an auxillary (small electric) coolant pump to force more coolant through the heater core when heating demand is high. I've had to replace it. It has a heater shut off valve, which is only opened when heating is required. I've had to replace it.

I bet you never had to replace those parts on your Biscayne or a vintage Corvette because those cars don't HAVE those parts (at least if they don't have A/C, in which case it probably has a heater flow control valve.)

You can trouble shoot the complete electrical system of a vintage car with a 20 dollar multimeter, and can often do it without a manual because all cars of that vintage have pretty much the same DC electical systems and components. On a modern car you need a computer (or a "special" test set - maybe several for a given model), special software, special hardware interface, and a six inch thick manual. At least OBD II created some standarization.

The new Mercs (and a lot of other "modern" cars) have so many dodads and gizmos that they seem to constantly need of "fixing", and DIYers are up the creek without a paddle unless you have hundreds if not thousands of dollar worth of diagnostic equipment. I'd never want to own one beyond the warranty period.

Duke

[Frank C.]

Re: C2 - J65 Metallic Brakes

Duke I Already know I'm old fashioned as is evidenced by by my vehicles. The newest cars I own is the '66 Biscayne and a '66 Caprice. If they konk out on the freeway, no tow truck needed, I can fix 'em with a bobbie pin.