Re: Look for my ad in the Driveline.....

[Zack]

It is Sad that our love for those wonderful cars has come to a point that it commands such large sums of money for both cars and parts that it had become a rich persons hobby. Many of us have to hock our soles away to drive that car we so dearly love. It's a shame that I have to take my original car and ignore the possiblities of keeping it that way, but I refuse to pay the prices most people want for their parts- George, Joe and Most others on this board are HONEST highly respectable people who would never gouge anyone, but as an earlier post refered to the driveline just one look tells you most are looking to get all they can for their parts and cars.

It's the American way

Zack

[david smith]

Re: Look for my ad in the Driveline.....

Zack--- I couldn't agree with your statement any more about OUTRAGEOUS prices for original parts from most people out there. Just tried to get a headlight switch and 2 bumper guards and it was going to cost me almost $600.00. Sorry, not in this lifetime!!! The love for these cars is admirable but unfortunately like you say most will go the way of aftermarket parts and quasi originals purely from a practical stance of save the farm or buy another part!! I think the term "hobby" takes a totaly new attitude!!

[Jeff]

National Communist Restorer's Society?

Ever hear the one about the Communist and his bike? He's asked if he had a house would he give it to The State? "Of course", he says because he's a good Red. If he had a car would he give that to The State, too? Same answer. Well how about your bike, are you gonna give that to The State? "If you touch my bike, I'll break your hands."

For 'the good of the hobby', I'd give all the original blocks you guys have in your possession to the car's present owner, too. But on my own stuff, I think I'll turn a profit to offset what I have to pay for all the crap I get scraped hard for. If we all pay market price what's the difference? We just keep exchanging the same inflated dollars.

$2500 for the completely rebuilt original short block out of a chic-chic SWC-FI is cheap. The only reason the guy didn't buy is that he's a dealer and can get all the 'illusion of originality' he needs from a restamp a lot cheaper than with the OM. But if his customer for the car starts to bail on him, you gotta know the first thing he's gonna tell the guy is that he knows where the original block is, how well it was rebuilt and how cheaply Don wants to sell it.

FWIW, Don's market isn't a market of one. It's a market of one at a time. Once the dealer sells the car and every time it resells he gets an new market. Anyone who thinks that someone selling an OM is at a disadvantage must also believe that when aliens land they're gonna eat garbage, piss gas and fart ozone. He can sell a properly rebuilt short block to anyone willing to stamp a block. If I were Don, I'd post the VIN here to give the dealer a little less incentive to restamp the car.

Grow up, guys. What do you think makes your car so freaking valuable? Your good looks or the fact that it's a collection of expensive parts?

Don (never met him, but I'll bet he's a lot more fun to hang with than you guys) is the good guy here and he's getting skewered. He did his good deed. He did a lot more than any of you (or I) have ever done 'for the hobby'. He spent his time and money to try to make another car 'legit' and make someone's day in the process. But he had the misfortune of having the car in the possession of a dealer and he gave a bunch of cheap people too much credit and told them his numbers.

Like Jerry said, you guys should put your hobbyist discounts where your mouths are in the next Driveline or hang your heads in shame.

JP

[George Daina]

Some strong words there Jeffrey.....

Exchanging parts for inflated $$$$$$$$ makes sense IF you have a high parts turnover rate, BUT if you're ONLY buying, the green tends to run out quite quickly and your premise is FALSE.

Regarding restamping vs. spending the $$$$ for the original block, there are some mighty talented people out there, and if you happen to know one and know the quality of the work, thenpicking up a bare block for pocket change and an extra $200.00 for the craftsman, what you have is an original block, an the ONLY people that know it is not is, you, the craftsman, and the wind, no one else, no NCRS enthusiast, no Judge from Bloomington, NO ONE. And yes, it is the American way, saving a $$$$, just like making a $$$.

You mention the market as one at a time, true, but if it's a keeper, the market remains at one, and unless Don can persuade the next owner to believe that the motor is a fraud, Don will carry the block to his grave, UNLESS he can find someone willing to cough up the $$$$$ just for the casting # & casting date. And say should the new owner garner some awards from Bloomington and NCRS, it would be MIGHTY MIGHTY tough to prove that the block residing in the car is a fraud, even in a court of law. As I see it, isntead of holding a had that is a Royal Straight, Don has a hand that is 6 high.

Now, what makes our cars so valuable? Our good looks? Partly, because it is our sweat, $$$$, and effort that goes into the cars, after all, isn't our cars the reflection of ourselves? Hey, I have yet to pay for an overinflated part, oops, my mistake, I did buy a center carb, complete, for $200.00, but then again, the market is around $250.00, so, I got it for less than market. Now, with that said, I wonder why my car is so valuable? I dunno, guess it must be my good looks, it certainly can't be of the parts purchased at less than market value.

Hey, who u callin' cheap? Speak for yourself, boy, how 'bout frugal or sensible, or knowin' where to draw the line? If you're so free with your $$$$$, HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU.

Jeffrey, you have a false missconception of us, we be fun dudes to hang out with, witty, chatty, sense of humor, jus' like the good ol' boys. Just because we'd buy ya a glass of water during the romp on the town, don't mean we ain't fun, cause we is.

Hey, have a good one, an' it's been nice chattin' with ya.

[G B.]

The truth hurts

I can't remember anyone admitting that they want too much for their stuff, including me. But, I have run ads that didn't result in a sale. Could it possibly be...?

We have seen the enemy, and he is us.

[Robert C.]

Re: The truth hurts

You're right Jerry, there are a load of guys out there with a load of parts that no one will call on. They usually come around and get resonable after a while. I think we ought to have a Driveline Ad of the Month for the most "out of line" parts prices. There's always one! Also its not just Corvettes, 55-57 Chevys, Mustangs, etc. As the demand goes up, so do the prices-- where have I heard that before?

[Dave, NCRS#24235]

Re: The truth hurts - I agree

I agree with you. Speaking of truth, I also agree that the restamped block is dishonest and immoral. Calling it the American way makes me want to buy a Japanese or German car. The problem can be solved at the root level with a rules change. Assign more points to casting number and date, and less to (often restamped) VIN. Partial points should be allowed if the VIN and assembly date are from a Corvette with the same engine configuration. The judging rules are driving both the prices and the cheating. NCRS is opting for the increased policing via VIN image lists, instead of making it easier for members to be honest. - Dave

[dale pearman]

Re: Look for my ad in the Driveline.....

Zack: I'm still looking for my Driveline! If I ever get it, I'll look for your ad.

Varooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooom

[Richard T.]

Re: The truth hurts

Jerry,

There's no question at all about who the culprit is but we've created this monster and I don't think there's any way to kill it now. Most everyone who pays a high price for a part for one of their cars will try to resell their parts for as much as the market will bear . It's human nature , as long as the cars cost what they do the parts will follow suit. Sure you can buy repo stuff but to some that's not good enough so the search goes on for a reasonably priced original part. I know that you and many others travel long distances to attend and sell at swap meets. It's a large expense , and so is the restoration game. Some folks recover restoration expenses by selling parts that they ratted up and it's one way they can make it affordable (I'm one of those), I don't have a problem with that. It's my choice if I buy a particular part at a high price or not. If the seller can't get his price than he has no option if he wants to sell it-lower the price or keep it ! Don't get me wrong , I'm not saying that this is good or fair. It's just the way it is-the buyer has the final say . Rich

[Dave, NCRS#24235]

The root cause isn't always supply&demand

I agree that supply and demand should be allowed to set prices for scarce parts - THAT's the American way not, as stated in a previous message, restamping parts (engine blocks) to keep costs down. Restamping is fraud when you don't tell everyone that the object is altered. The NCRS rules foster restamping and should be changed (i.e. 2 points for VIN match, 1 point for not match but Corvette VIN of same model year). That would take the incentive out of high resale of factory original blocks and also out of restamping. - Dave

[Bill W.]

Re: National Communist Restorer's Society?

Jeff,

The title of your post is offensive! I have been an active member of this organization since November 1977. I have yet to meet my first communist NCRS member! The National CORVETTE Restorers Society can not be all things for all people. We are not a perfect organization, we can only try to improve what we are, and we are not communists! Democracy is a sorry form of government, but it is better than anything else out there. The NCRS is the same way.

If you read through the threads relating to Don's posting you know it was late in the thread when the info came to light that what he was selling was a fresh short block. I think had this information been posted earlier, there would have been fewer negitive comments.

Don probably is a fun guy to hang with, but then I think most of the people active on this board would be. After all, we share the same hobby. Don didn't get skewered, if he doesn't sell the motor, he can use it himself.

As far as your comment of "he gave a bunch of cheap people too much credit"; I know several of the members (but certainly not all) who post on this board. Some for many years. There ain't a cheap one in the bunch! I have been helped by NCRS members more times than I can count in the last 28 years. Look at the "cheap" help provided by this board every day. Is this the work of cheap people? Not!

You ask me to "put my mouth in the next Driveline or hang my head in shame", about 15 years ago I did. (See post from yesterday) I reunited a '68 motor with the car's owner for about $750. Jeff, what have you done lately for the hobby? Bill


National Communist Restorers Society

[Jerry Clark]

Excellent !

and well said Bill.

jerry

[Patrick T.]

Re: Look for my ad in the Driveline.....

When I restored my '57, I remember paying $850 for a pair of rechromed tailights at Carlisle. The price did seem outrageous, but everyone else was selling them for the same price. Two years later, a perfect reproduction came out for $550. Some days are better than others. This is a fact of life, and no one is making you buy anything. If you think resoring a Corvette is expensive, try buying NOS parts to restore an '82 308 Ferrari, like I did a few years back; it made me think Corvette parts are truly a bargin.

[Mike Dedon]

Re: Look for my ad in the Driveline.....

I placed my first Driveline ad last year for some NOS parts for trade. I believe in "worth" not "value". What are my parts "worth" to me and what are someone else's parts worth to them. The response I got was "my parts are more "valueable" than yours. I'll have a vendor's spot in Knoxville this weekend. Some of my parts are worth what I'm asking, some are worth what you are willing to pay.

[Jeff]

You're defintely not a Communist, no sir...

Hardcore Capitalist is more like it.

Let's see, Bill, with $750 adjusted for 15 years of inflation, (forget Market rates), and after accounting for the fact that your engine wasn't rebuilt like Don's and then factoring in the relatively small boost in intrinsic value the original block gave a base motor 68 vs. a 63 FI car, I'd say you porked him pretty good.

Nope, I haven't done anything like that for the hobby lately... ;)

JP