ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

[Steve Antonucci]

Here's a good one. Check out eBay Item number: 8044553424

This is a rough casting of an original ZL-1 block. And,
when I say rough, I mean rough. It comes complete with the
Winter's foundry logo and '052 part number. As far as
useable stuff goes, that's about it.

This block is not milled in any way ( deck, mains, bores,
lifters, oil passages, water jackets on the deck, internal
threads on the decks, timing cover, oil pan rails, etc.).
I'm sure there are other things that need to be done as well
to this block.

It's a nice conversation piece for the ZL-1 crowd, but how
useable is it in the real world?

So the question is really this. Could any shop actually be
able to perform all of the milling required on this block?
The oil passages alone need to be gun-drilled and that can
be expensive. I looked into this once to convert a 2-bolt
main block into a 4-bolt main block ( correct casting date
& casting number ). I bet the milling costs would be
astronomical to say the least assuming that it could be
done dimensionally correct. You only get one chance with
that much work.......

So, assuming that all the planets were properly alligned and
you were in-good the the big guy upstairs, could this block
be machined properly today? All of the original setup
tooling at GM for Mark IV blocks is probably gone by now.

Actually, where were these aluminum 427 blocks machined back
in the day? Was that work done in Tonowanda as well?

Just wondering what others think about it.

Steve

[Joe L.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Steve-----

I would consider a block like this to be a "conversation" or "display" piece only. Very few, if any, machine shops would be equipped to final machine this block. If you found one that would, it would probably come at a high cost. One could buy a current generation ZL-1 block, fully machined, from GM for less overall. This block, built on the original tooling which has been modified and greatly improved, would be the ONLY way to go from a functional perspective. This block MIGHT be of value, though, to someone wanting to restore a Yenko car, providing that it has the Yenko casting insignias and the buyer has a source for machining. To me, this block would be worth about $100, maximum, as a conversation and curiousity item. That's all.

As far as I know, original ZL-1 blocks were cast at Winters Foundry and machined at Tonwanda, NY. The current ZL-1 blocks are cast I don't know where and are CNC machined at Swartz Machine in Warren, MI. They are definitely not cast at Winters since, I believe that Winters went out of business with their parent company, Kaiser Aluminum. However, they may be cast at a successor to the Winter's foundry or at some other aluminum foundry.

[John H.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Low-volume block machining isn't cheap. My Viper blocks were cast by Ohio Aluminum and machined by Uniboring in Livonia, Michigan, on three six-axis Mazak CNC machining centers with automatic tool changers. That setup generates about two blocks per hour per machine, and the washer that cleans them after machining was $250,000 (we paid for the tooling and facilities at Uniboring).

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Joe,

I agree completely. A nice door-stop huh?

BTW, no Yenko or any other "day-two" car ever came with a ZL-1 block.
They were all standard L/72 iron blocks. Even the aluminum blocks that
Don Yenko had cast ( with the Yenko name in place of the Winters foundry
logo ) were all available way after the 69 production year.....

Steve

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

John,

I'd love to know the cost per block for complete setup, machining & cleanup.
Do you have a ball park figure?

Also, what condition are your Viper blocks in pre-machining? Are they rough
castings as the example ZL-1 block in this thread?

Steve

[John H.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Steve -

As I recall, we paid around $1800.00 per block for the machining; there was only one setup per block, and the Mazaks did all the re-positioning and tool-changing automatically. Two smaller Mazaks did the heads, oil pan, and front cover. The raw castings from Ohio Aluminum (block, heads, oil pan, front cover and water pump) were similar to the block in the auction, but were much crisper and cleaner without all the excess material.

[Joe L.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Steve-----

Yes, as far as I know, no Yenko Camaros ever received one of the aluminum Yenko blocks. However, I was told that some of the later Yenko Chevy IIs did have them. I don't know if that's true, or not, since I don't really study other Chevrolet models in a lot of depth and I have virtually zero interest in Yenko cars of any sort. However, if it's true that NO Yenko-badged cars ever included the aluminum big block, then I don't know why someone would pay a king's ransom that I've seen paid for these blocks on eBay from time-to-time.

[Joe L.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

John-----

Yes, and I would expect that when "low volume" gets down to a single piece, the cost really gets out-of-hand. I can just imagine what it would cost to have a capable machine shop with CNC milling equipment set up to machine a block like this unfinished one under discussion here.

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Joe,

That's another ditto!

Just the name Yenko seems to put people into a tailspin.......

As you mentioned, I've seen people pay major bucks for Yenko crested aluminum
427 blocks that the sellers had all kinds of claims about being in original
Yenko cars. Just not true. Even if you want it to be so, it just isn't....

Steve

[Joseph T.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Joe

I saw a ZL1 engine while in Florida for the Regional Meet..with what appeared to be the original vin # stamped on it from the plant that made Camaro's...based on the vin #.

Can't remember all the details...but it looked real as can be..was not for sale ..just one great item in an awesome collection...of cars and parts. Owner is a serious guy.

When I was a teenager living in Chicago..there was a street racer that had an unbeatable Camaro with a ZL1. Many moons ago. Does not mean either one was a Yenko.

[Michael H.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Could be you are remembering Art Bovio? He had one of the Gibbs ZL-1 cars. Bought it new but if I remember correctly, it was a dealer trade from Gibbs to a dealer in the SW suburbs.

[Joseph T.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Michael..this was an inner city racer..as I remember called Junior. At that time 69/70 there was the High Chaparall and the Coke Machine Camaro's and I think Junior's was a 3rd car.

Races were on Hall street. Did not see too many Corvettes mostly Chevelles, Camaro's, Mopars

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Anyone care to hazzard a guess as to what it would cost to get this casting
finished machined ( including cylinder sleeves ) into a state ready for final
assembly? Could it even be done at this late a state?

Steve

[Michael H.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

I remember the Coke Machine from Lyons?(Al Cocanis?) but I don't remember Junior. I remember some great street racing on Ogden Ave just east of the Chicago city limits that headed west and ended at the Cicero line. The shut down was actually in Cicero. Chicago cops got paid off most of the time. If not, they opened several fire hydrants and flooded the streets so there was no racing. Of course, mikey wouldn't have been involved in anything as sinister as this.

[Joseph T.]

Re: ZL-1 block ( rough casting ) on eBay

Michael..those days would make a great movie..or has it been done with ricers? Ever wonder where all those cars went?

I suspect the old neighborhood alley garages are loaded with muscle car gems..and a few Corvettes too.

I do rememember an L88 losing its rear end at US30...too bad we don't have a picture history of that time frame.