1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum - NCRS Discussion Boards

1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

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  • Larry S.
    Expired
    • March 1, 1992
    • 19
    #1

    1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

    Hello fellow NCRS memebers. I have a problem I need help with. I'm looking for the correct 4 speed Borg warner T10 transmission for my 1961 corvette. My VIN # is 3236. According to the NCRS judging manual after VIN # 2400 Chevrolet changed to a aluminum main case t10. VIN # 2400 would have been built around the 3rd of NOV. 1960. That means the case would of had to be cast in late OCT of 1960. According to all the research I've done Chevrolet did not start casting aluminum main case transmission until the end of NOV. I have checked with the most experienced transmission rebuilders in the country one of them being Darrell Shepherd of 4 speeds by Darrell. I also talked to Alan Colvin who is the author of CORVETTE BY THE NUMBERS and everybody I talked has told me Chevrolet did not start casting aluminum main case Borg Warner transmission until the end of NOV of 1960 and they did not get installed in Corvette's until the end of DEC 1960. NCRS judging chairman for 1961-62 Dave Heitzman told me my car came with a aluminum main case transmission. So long story short I want to find the correct transmission for my car but everybody tells me my car came with a cast iron main case but the NCRS juding manual says aluminum. In looking for an aluminum main case transmission, Darrell Shepherd tells me I'm looking for a main case that dosen't exist. I would like to conduct a survey of 1961 Corvette's after VIN # 2400 to find what type of transmission is installed in these cars, cast iron or aluminum main case transmission. Can anybody out there who has a 1961 Corvette with a VIN # after 2400 up to VIN # 4000 help me out and tell me what 4 speed transmission main case they have. Thanks for the help everyone!

    Larry #20778
    Tags: None
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    • Ed H.
      Very Frequent User
      • November 1, 1999
      • 626
      #2
      Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

      Larry,
      I just looked at a T-10 and it had a cast iron case. The date code on the side of the main case was J-18-62.
      On the side of the case it is cast "T-10-B", which I understand is the second or third model of T-10. I also looked at a T-10, aluminum main case and it was cast dated L-09-62. This would have been for a 63 year vette. Good luck on your search.
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        • Mike M.
          NCRS Past President
          • May 31, 1974
          • 8365
          #3
          Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

          no 63 vette left st louis with a cast iron case. all aluminum. Pontiac and oldsmobile continued to use cst iron case beyond L-09-62 so the one you looked at probably came from a non-vette GM make. mike
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            • Mike E.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • February 28, 1975
              • 5134
              #4
              Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

              Ed--
              No later 61, no 62, no 63 Corvette had cast iron cases. Pontiac/Olds, etc. did.
              Larry--
              This has come up in the archives before. It's also been a discussion that we've had regarding the 61-62 judging manuals each revision time. I inherited that statement regarding the approximate date of the change from cast iron to aluminum when we did the revision several iterations back. I don't know from whom/where that came. Any research you can document would be much appreciated, because we are open to looking at rectifying anything that is documented as incorrect. Any help you can give is appreciated--the problem is, you don't have the original tranny in your car. If there was an original part with in idisputable pedigree, it makes it much easier to make the change.
              Good luck in your research/hunt.
              Mike Ernst
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                • Verne Frantz
                  #5
                  Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

                  Larry,
                  You might try contacting Wayne Loron. A number of years ago he wrote an article about T-10 identification. He also maintains a dbase of original 4-spd equipped Corvettes with the trans info. The spreadsheet he sent me years ago had the earliest documented T10-1C (alum) case as being from VIN 6527, estimated assembly date of 3-20-61. The latest T10-1B (iron) case in his data was in VIN 2676, estimated assembly date of 11-10-60. Now, that leaves a big unknown window, but his data may have expanded since then. His email address (is/was) wloron@proaxis.com I haven't contacted him in quite some time, so I'm not sure if the address is still good.

                  Verne
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                    • Larry S.
                      Expired
                      • March 1, 1992
                      • 19
                      #6
                      Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

                      This is great information Verne. Thank you very much. I sent an email to Wayne Loron. I'll post anything I find out from Wayne. My research continues, but it sure looks like cars built after VIN # 2400 and built in NOV of 1960 had cast iron main cases. Thanks again Verne. Larry #20778
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                        • Larry S.
                          Expired
                          • March 1, 1992
                          • 19
                          #7
                          Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

                          Mike, Thank you for taking the time to respone to my question. I have lots of documentation from 2 source books CORVETTE by the numbers and CHEVROLET by the numbers. I have talked the aurtor of both these books Alan Colvin and I have talked to 3 highly knowledgeable Borg Warner T10 transmission rebuilders in the country one of them being Darrell Shepherd of 4speeds by Darrell and all have said they have found no aluminum main case transmission's earlier than mid to late DEC of 1960. They also told me for VIN # 2400 to have come with a aluminum main case, the case would of had to been cast in mid to late Oct of 1960. My research continues. Hopefully some members will respond to may original email who have original cars VIN # after 2400 and can tell us what type of transmission they have. Thanks again Mike, your comments are most appreciated. More to come.

                          Larry Serres #20778
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                            • Verne Frantz
                              #8
                              Re: 1961 T10 Transmissions Cast Iron or Aluminum

                              Larry,
                              It seems as though you are between a rock and a hard place. I have read over Mike's reply to you many times, trying to understand where the burden of proof really lies. It seems that you are being put in the position of "proving" that there were no T10-1C (alum) cases in production as early as your car. I can't understand how you could ever prove that. On the other hand, the existing "proof" that they WERE available and correct for your car is somehow unavailable. Mike's comment, "I don't know from whom/where that came" stands out as a problem in my mind. If the guidelines are to be accurate, then they need to have a link to something positive - a path back to something that is known to be original. In his own words, he told you to provide something beyond question as being original, yet he can't provide the same evidence to verify the existing guidlines. ...........................?????????
                              If someone says, "this is the rule, but I have no idea where it came from", then I question the rule.
                              I don't believe the burden of proof is on you.....

                              I hope you had more luck in contacting Wayne. I think it's Mike that should be contacting Wayne.!!

                              Verne
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