Things owners say during Flight Judging....

[Patrick T.]

I was judging Mechanical 2 (chassis) at an NCRS meet last Sunday. I'm on the floor, checking out the starter and I hear the owner above, talking to someone else saying...."Oh yeah, I got stainless steel brake and gas lines on this car".

Later on, I was checking some sidepipes and sticking my hand behind them to see if there were the factory cutouts in the birdcage. The owner knelt down on the floor and told me..."it's an A.O. Smith car and I added the sidepipes about 5 years ago".

Why do they talk about incriminating evidence in front of the guy that's judging their car? Is this verbage, directly from the owner, admissible as evidence towards a point deduction or should anything the owner says be totally disregarded? I always thought the motto was...Don't ask, don't tell"! PT

[Art B.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

Patrick:
My choice in that situation would be to disregard anything the owner says. Although I can't remember that happening while I was judging, I would guess that some Corvette owners are fairly new to the hobby and don't really know what is on their car. Also, for some odd reason, they may say they did something to it when they really did not.

[Mike M.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

pat: this has happened numerous times while i've judged corvettes. on most occassions, the owner admitted to the inconsistency right before we judges got to that part of the judging. i'm usually lenient with deductions when this has happened. haven't ever heard an owner fess up accidently though.mike

[Patrick T.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

I thought this was highly unusual, but didn't bat an eye and still went through visually checking everything. I didn't say anything to them. Silence is golden. It's just like that phrase...."anything you say can and will be used against you in court". Kind of like knocking yourself on the head with your own baseball bat. JMO. PT

[Patrick H.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

Having been a judge at meets far more than having had my own car judged, I've seen the same thing. Of course, as the owner I've known that there are things the judges miss, and I'm not about to point anything out and give them a freebie.

The only time I ever 'fessed up was when Bowtie judging at Windsor the Interior judges wanted to see the 72's jack. I really didn't feel like hauling it out to show them the date, so just admitted it was a 1979 jack and saved myself the effort. I think they were surprised I "gave up" that one so easily, but those jacks are not fun to get out and reinstall.

Patrick

[Donald B.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

Geeeeee.... am I naive! I was thinking that the people having their cars judged want a COMPLETE evaluation. Sneaking something past the judges kind of defeats the purpose - doesn't it?

[Christopher R.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

I've done this when I know the item is wrong, and I know it's difficult for the judge to find out. Trying to save the judge some work. I had my car judged because I wanted an evaluation that would help me in the restoration. I didn't care so much about the certificate. No sense in the judge spending a lot of time and effort to tell me something's wrong when I already know that. I'm grateful for the judge's time and effort.

[don 42616]

Volunteers all !! Thank You

Yes, The judges should not be an adversary. While I have disagreed with some calls I remember all the classes & events they go to at their own time /expense. Don

[Mike E.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

Having been on both sides of that coin--judging many times, and even more often heading up judging teams so I can then just walk around and observe and listen, it is amazing to me how human an endeavor it is.
Like every other human activity, some are much more ready and eager to share, others are much more ready to listen.
Some are much more adept with people skills. I put myself through college and seminary refereeing and umpiring high school, college, and industrial league basketball and baseball games. Some were really good at working the umpires and refs, others left against their will before the contest was over.
I like to sit back and watch and try to determine what actually someone is saying (beyond their words), and why they are saying it.
As a long-time 61-62 team leader, I always encouraged owners, if they had something on their car that was counter what the judging manual said, to talk to me or the primary judge on that portion of their car BEFORE they began judging it, so that they made it known that it was not per the manual, and they knew that, and yet they reinstalled it because of their belief that it was original to the car.
Honesty is always the best policy--and sometimes upfront honesty will gain you points later on.
FWIW
Mike Ernst

[Dick W.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

Reverend Mike, are you saying that you turned your collar around and were taking confession?

[Dave McDufford]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

When I had my ‘65 judged, I did not wish to be confrontational or waste a lot of time and I am not going to lie about what I did to the car. Other than the normal anxiety of having a group of experts critique two and a half years work, it should be an enjoyable experience, with friends – and for the most part was .

We were discussing paint and I told them it was Acrylic Urethane with clear mixed in for molting (sp). The doors and other non-buffed parts had a flattener added. I lost 42 points (or something like that) and we moved on. It did Topflight.

Dave

[Patrick H.]

Re: Things owners say during Flight Judging....

"Geeeeee.... am I naive! I was thinking that the people having their cars judged want a COMPLETE evaluation. Sneaking something past the judges kind of defeats the purpose - doesn't it?"

Don,

I guess that depends on your intent in having your car judged.

-Are you new to the hobby, and want to find out what it's all about?
-Is the car new to you and you'd like it evaluated?
-Are you well versed in judging, but have decided to try having you own car judged?
-Is this one of several cars you've run through the process, and none of this is new to you at all?

Speaking only for myself, if I wanted to have a complete evaluation including any "past sins" I know about, I'd fill in the judging sheets and send them in, hoping that Roy would just send me a Certificate because I'd been completely honest. Now, since that's not how it works, I bring my car to a meet and have it judged.

I know it sounds incredibly arrogant to say that no one knows the details of my car like I do, but at least for my two I suspect that's the case. I own a 71 and 72, and virtually all I've judged is 70-72s. And, in turn, I don't know too many details at all about the cars of other members. But, knowing my own car so well, I'm not about to spend 15 minutes with each judging team and "fill them in" on what "may not be" correct about my car.

If sneaking something past the judges isn't a part of it, then why do so many reproduction parts get full Originality credit?
Or why are there so many 67 big blocks with "original numbers matching" motors?

Patrick

[Clem Z.]

like art linkletter said,

"kids say the darnest things"

[Mike M.]

What About What Judges say To Owners

I have been made to feel like I knew nothing about my car and he knew everything. Try and explain something to someone with that attitude. It really puts a damper on your day. Mike

[G B.]

Why be honest without reward?

I think people who want their cars judged based on the truth should be commended. It sounds to me like these people don't require a carrot for honesty.