68 Starter solenoid question

[Kurt B.]

I need to purchase a new solenoid for my 68 as I just broke the solid copper wire inside the Bakelite solenoid cap that goes to the large copper bolt. For purposes of correctness, will any solenoid from any auto parts store be OK or should it come from GM and have a specific part number? The 3rd edition of the 68/69 Judging Manual just says that the metal portion is zinc plated.
If it is GM only does anyone know the part number?

Mine is brand new but I accidentally twisted off the solid copper wire and assumed that if I solder it, it will not stand up to the heat generated by the engine compartment even though it is inside the Bakelite cap. Any thoughts please, I need to resolve this ASAP.
Thank you,
Kurt #26406

[Joe L.]

Re: 68 Starter solenoid question

Kurt-----

I think you should be able to repair the wire with a properly performed soldering. If it gets hot enough in this area to degrade the solder joint, that will be the very least of your problems. Lots of engine compartment electrical parts/componets have solder connections within them.

Original solenoids were BOTH zinc plated as well as painted semi-gloss black. In the 68-69 era, I think that more were black than zinc.

The current part number for the solenoid is GM #1114458 or Delco D-981.

[Kurt B.]

Thanks Joe, I 'mreally annoyed

beacause after 10 years of work and much money, my newly rebuilt 1108361 starter with new correct tar top battery causes me to have a car that will not start when it is hot. I just insured and registered the car and am dying to take it for a test ride but it is not reliable. If I have to turn off the car or stall it by accident when it is hot, it will not restart until it cools down. Everything is new, cables, heat shield, solenoid, bendix drive and tonight while peeking into the cap I broke the wire. I am going to send the starter to John Pirkle to have the windings and armature checked. Turnaround time is 8 weeks. By the time I get this thing on the road it will be winter.
So frustrating,,,,,

[Mark F.]

Re: Thanks Joe, I 'mreally annoyed

Kurt

If you send the starter off to be checked out why wait to drive it. Maybe you can pick up a used starter or cheap aftermarket starter and put it in so you can at least drive the car. Heck, even having an incorrect starter can't be a loss of too many points on the judging field.

Mark

[Kurt B.]

Re: Thanks Joe, I 'mreally annoyed

Mark,
You are correct. I have several other starters and will put another one in tomorrow so i can at least go for a ride. I am thinking it is the battery which is new and came from Restoration Battery in Ohio but it may just not be strong enough to turn over the motor when it is hot. I have done all the things everyone suggested to get around heat soak and still have problems. Guess I will just have to keep chasing this problem untill I get it resolved.
Kurt

[Joe L.]

Re: Thanks Joe, I 'mreally annoyed

Kurt-----

If you think that it might be the battery, then you can try replacing that with another one, too. They don't cost that much for an adequate one. Replacing the starter is a good idea, too. In fact, you might want to do that before you even send off the starter for a check-out. If you still have the problem after you swap in a known-good starter and a known-good battery, then you know the problem lies elsewhere. My strong hunch is that these changes are not going to solve this problem. Let us know how it turns out, though.

[Jim T.]

Re: Thanks Joe, I 'mreally annoyed

Kurt I believe it is your battery as well. My ole 68 many, many, many years ago gave me trouble about like your described. I put a Delco battery in, I would have to get my maint book out to see exactly what Delco I bought, but I never had any more hot starting problems. It was great to drive it anywhere in the hot summer and be able to restart it whenever I turned the key. That Delco battery lasted about 8 years. Have another Delco in it now with no problems.

[Mark #28455]

is your timing set correctly?

Check your initial timing (without vac advance) if it is too advanced, it will give a hard start. Sometimes the centrifugal advance mechanism in the distributor gets stuck.
Mark

[Verle R.]

Re: is your timing set correctly?

I recently worked on a Corvette that didn't run well. One thing I found was a relatively new rotor that set on the mechanical advance weights and prevented their operation.

I could not tell who the manufacturer was but it certainly not made correctly.

Verle

[Alan Drake]

Battery,timing, another guess

I agree each of these can cause the problem, however please try the cheap fix first;
Clean the battery cable ends - they build up a coating that results in a high resistance thus asking for more current out of battery. In the past I have seen people replace batteries, starters, alt, ect. Then somebody cleaned the cable ends and no more problems. (the build up will just happen over time)

Another simple problem (BB at least) was the lack of shims on the starter. When replacing starters these walked out of the garage never to be seen again. When heat builds up the distance between the flywheel and drive gear would get too small and the sol would suck more current in an attempt to turn the flywheel however it never seems to get enought power. SO try a shim.

These are both inexpensive tries. If neither works - first measure the current required when cold and then when hot (when it is hard to start) and assure its within spec. (sorry I do not know the spec on current draw).

A new battery may slove the problem for a short time if it is giving you more current, however if the current draw is over spec then you have not curred the problem just given it an asprin.

Good Luck with this! JUST a few simple things to try tha may not fix the problem.

[Randy R.]

Re: 68 Starter solenoid question

I had a very similar experience with my 63...starts cold every time but rarely while hot. It turned out to be the starter, haven't had a problem since the rebuild.

[Joseph K.]

Re: 68 Starter solenoid question

At the bottom of the starter is the end cap that will come off by removeing the two long screws on each side of the starter. With the cap off here is a place on the cap that holds a brass oil inpregnated bushing. I have found that this bushing is the usual cause for starters dragging and bringing the battery down. Usually a little antiseize or replace bushing will fix the problem, a quick cheap fix......works for me.........Joe

[Kurt B.]

Where can I get the shims? *NM*

[Joe L.]

Re: Battery,timing, another guess

Kurt-----

The GM starter shims are discontinued. However, you can usually find these in auto parts stores. If they have a Help!/Dorman/Motormite section, that's usually where you will find them.

[Kurt B.]

Re: Starter problem appears to be solved

All,
Thank you for the input on my heat soak problem.
The problem appears to have been corrected. Tonight, I removed the 1108361 starter and put in the old starter that had been in the car for the last 20-25 years before I started the restoration project. Then I borrowed a WalMart battery from my neighbor and started the car. So far so good. I let it idle for 30 minutes and shut it off. This is usually where it would not restart. Standing next to the car, I reached in and turned the key and it started IMMEDIATELY. I did this 6 more times. Each time, without even getting in the car or touching the gas, it started immediately, which by the way is how this car always started since 1972. So I guess my new correctly date coded Delco tar top with correct caps and rubber hoses which cost me $203.00 is not as good as a lowly WalMart battery at 1/3 the price.
I am both flabbergasted and embarrassed that it turned out to be the battery as I was sure the Delco would be up to the task since it was new. I am still sending out my starter to have the fields and armature and everything else checked and today I also purchased the new 1114458 solenoid (thanks for the part number Joe Lucia)and installed the weaker spring as suggested by Jack Humphrey and Joe Lucia, and the factory heat shield is also in place over the solenoid cap.
But, I am at a loss as to how to get the correct battery for the car without experiencing starting problems again.
Any suggestions how to get a CORRECT factory original style battery that will pass the judges scrutiny and still start the car every time, not just when the engine is cold?
Kurt