C3's undervalued?

[Don Becker #41636]

I've been seriously thinking about getting a Lotus Exige as my next car.

http://www.lotuscars.com

Unfortunately, we'll be moving into our first house in about a week, and money will be tight for the next 6-12 months.

So I considered parting with the vette.

Until I saw what they seem to be going for (in the paper, and on ebay).

Anyways, what do you other C3 owners think of value?

Currently the C2's are going for what, 6 figures?

Do you think it is only a matter of time before the C3's go up or not?

I'm curious of what you guys think.

-Don

PS- Another interesting thought is that the parts for the C3's are almost just as expensive (read "insanely priced") as the parts for the C2's that are literally going for 10x's as much.

[Chas Henderson #28127]

Re: C3's undervalued?

I think if you have a chrome bumper car, its value will keep going up. Remember, they build a ton of them compared to the C-1 or C-2.

Chasman

[William C.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

As to the 74-up variants thru 77, I don't see them having significant appreciation in the next few years. Some of the later cars, 78 Aniversary and Pace cars are moving, but only pristine examples, 82 Collectors are scarce relatively, but the rest are "just cars".

[Charlie P.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

C3s, for the most part, have been a lot flatter than C2s for sure. Don't know if they're under-valued, but I gotta belive Mopars, muscle cars, and some C2s are into the over-valued region. Somebody will get caught holding the bag before too long.

I think Silver Anniversary '78s are under-valued, and '78 pace cars are a case study in and of themselves. Have "stored-away" pace cars moved at all since the '80s? Haven't they been around $30K since day one practically? With either of these cars, you can find a Bowtie/Top Flight lock, with extremely low mileage, in the mid to high $20s.

[Michael H.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Don,

Just an opinion but I always felt that the end of the muscle car era (not just Corvette) was in 1970-1971. All through the 50's and 60's, cars were the second most important thing on most young mens minds but several factors changed all of that. By 1970, most of the younger generation was more focused on protesting the war than in cars. Also the days of drive-in's, cheap high octane gas and street racing were coming to an end. The new low compression/power cars were fading fast and the people that were buying new cars weren't nearly as interested in performance as were the buyers of the decade before them. Muscle cars, and Corvette, lost much of their meaning and I believe this has had quite an impact on their value/prices today. By 1972, the car thing was pretty much over. The new car manufacturers made a few attempts at muscle in the early 70's but the world, for the most part, wasn't interested. A large part of the popularity of the 50's and 60's cars today has to do with what people remember as a kid and seeing/hearing a new C1 or C2 parked in the neighbors driveway 40 years ago is a memory that won't die. By the 70's, even young kids weren't nearly as interested in cars. All of this isn't meant to suggest that one era is better than another. It's just the difference in the world at the time these cars rolled off the end of the line.

[Henry J.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Well said, Mike.

[Harmon C.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

C-3's have went up alot in the last few years. The chrome bumper cars and any big block or convertible in NCRS top flight condition are worth much more than they were five years ago. 76-82's need to be real low miles to be worth more than their original sticker price.

Lyle

[Patrick H.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Charlie,

Please send me your latest e-mail address.
I've tried to contact you, but it's not getting through.

Patrick

[mike cobine]

Re: C3's undervalued? Respectfully Disagree

If you go with the C2 Stingrays and the chrome bumper C3 1968-1972, then you see they were not that far off in numbers. Even the averages per year are only up about 3000. Now if you figure in the rubber bumper cars, the numbers go WAY up. But you could look at it this way - there are so many becaue there was a big demand. So the really nice exmaples today SHOULD command a good price from those wanting to relive their youth when a '74 or '78 was new.



Year Per Year Average
1963 21,513
1964 22,229
1965 23,564
1966 27,720
1967 22,940
=================
Total 117,966 23,593


1968 28,566
1969 38,762
1970 17,316
1971 21,801
1972 27,004
=================
Total 133,449 26,690


1973 30,464
1974 37,502
1975 38,465
1976 46,558
1977 49,213
=================
Total 202,202 40,440




1978 46,776
1979 53,807
1980 40,614
1981 40,606
1982 25,407
=================
Total 207,210 41,442
Rubber 409,412 40,941

[mike cobine]

Re: C3's undervalued?

These are the best values in Corvettes going. You can get into a really nice rubber bumper car in the $7000-$10,000 range, drive the thing daily (isn't that what Corvettes were about?), and not worry if it depreciates or if someone scratches it. And it is still a Corvette. The horsepower is missing, but it is still a dependable small block. Basically an L82 cam and some tuning will bring most to life that is enough fun for a driver. If you want more, Chevy heads, cam, intake, and carb are bolt on/in and not that expensive.

And you can be in a Corvette with lots of modern options (time-delay interior lights, map lights, leather, cruise control, factory AC, etc.) with the ride that is every bit Corvette, with the classic C3 lines. All of this in a car you can still work on and tinker with as needed. It is a heck of a deal.

The only better deal is the early C4s. performance-wise, they blew away the C3s. Price-wise, they are cheaper. problem-wise, they are loaded with electronic glitches that nickel and dime you.

[mike cobine]

[Michael H.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Mike,

I agree with much of what you say but there are several things that were not exactly as you describe. In the very early 70's, the interest level in Corvettes and high performance cars was at the absolute bottom and very few people wanted anything to do with performance, at least compared to the feelings of the masses in the mid/late 60's. Things changed completely by 1972 or 73. Yes, the disco era was coming and people were buying new Corvettes but for completely different reasons. Almost no one that had a new 73 wanted anything to do with headers or performance modifications. The people that were buying new 74's were different than the people that bought mid 60's cars. Doctors, lawyers and wealthy people that just wanted something sporty to drive became the main target for GM advertising.

I drove Corvettes all through all of the era's that these cars went through since the early 60's so I was able to see it all. By the early 70's, most kids didn't even recognize a C2, but most importantly, they didn't care. You'd get the usual "hey, that's a cool car. What is it", but that was about it. That's why ALL the old 60's cars hit rock bottom in value by the early 70's.

There were just too many more important things going on in this country at that time to include cars of any kind. I remember it all because I was there and experienced it all. The decline in car popularity started in about 1968 or 69 and by 1970, this was a very different country. In the 60's, it was considered cool to have a street racer type car but in the 70's, you were the odd guy on the block if you weren't out protesting something or demonstrating etc. No one drove a Corvette to the party at the democratic national convention in Chicago in 1968. The V W bus was the chosen mode of transportation.

All of this is just one more reason why so many C1 and C2 Corvettes changed hands in the late 60's. If you trace the history of most C2 cars, you find that they changed hands in the late 60's or early 70's.

There are probably 100 reasons for this but all in all, it had to do with what was happening in the late 60's, the most memorible decade of the century.

[Randy G.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Mike:

You basically hit the nail on the head. I only disagree on pot being a reason. The group I hung around with didn't do (much) drugs and didn't protest the war, but we did worry about lottery numbers concerning the draft.

Graduating from high school in 1973 and I had a cigar box that I had piled money into for buying a car. During my saving years (1969-1973) I wanted a new Dodge Challenger with a 383 or larger. The Hemi added 50% to the price of the car back then so I thought it was out of the question.

By the time I graduated, the EPA was busy putting ugly bumpers and engine choking emmissions controls on our California cars. The horsepower went in the toilet, as did gas mileage. The new Corvettes ended up with a small block that put out less than 200 hp while enjoying 8 miles per gallon. Plus, the 1968 Corvette body fit and overall finish was so bad it ruined Corvette's reputation amongst high price sports car vehicle buyers. People started heading for the Datsun dealers to by 240Z's, Porche dealers, etc. The Corvette was now seen as a lower class car as you said. Sadly, the C3's still have that stigma to a certain extent among classic car investors who drive prices.

I remember a neighbor buying a brand new red 1963 split window when I was in grade school. All everyone did was talk about that car. "The parents were saying "They must be rich. I wish I could buy one. That is such a sleek car. How do the kids ride in that?" And..."Where's mine!"

So what did I do with that cigar box full of money when I got out of high school? I had the distinction of being the only guy on my college campus with a beautiful C1 1960 Corvette. Man I wish I had that car back.

Randy

[Randy G.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Michael:

Here in California in the early 1970's they started doing smog inspections with random stations set up all over town. If you sneezed on the emissions control stuff on your car you got a great big ticket for touching it. That killed the market and changed attitudes here in So Cal. (Several decades later the EPA finally realized putting headers on your car didn't make you a communist, and actually helped reduce emmissions and improve mileage in many cases so all of that has changed thankfully).

I worked in an auto parts store that had an automotive machine shop while going through high school and college (1972-1977). We had a huge high performance/sports car customer base. I witnessed the changes taking place first hand along with hearing the complaints from the public. New cars built after 1972 were not consumer friendly with regards to the home do-it-yourself mechanics anymore. The small auto parts stores and performance centers started going out of business and were replaced by Pep Boys and other stores that specialize in chrome door lock knobs, fancy mud flaps and Chinese creepers. Detroit was busy burying our once beloved small and big blocks with PVC valves, smog pumps, exhaust recirculation systems and red hot catalitic converters. At the same time they gave the cars a fat lip with great big spring loaded bumpers.

Gone were the days where you could walk in to a Chevy or Chrysler dealer and drive off in a bonified race car. Like was said, smog laws here in California ruined the drive for performance cars because they became lethargic. Styling took a dump as Detroit tried to incorporate an ugly bumper into existing body lines. Look at the Ford Mustangs from the mid 1970's to 1980's. They ended up looking like a Toyota Corolla or something. I wonder how we went from 1969 Shelby Cobra to a 4 cylinder Mustang no larger than a Honda Civic in less than 10 years? Now Ford reintroduces a Mustang that's almost a dead ringer to it's great grandpa of 40 years ago and they sell a ton of them.

It's great to see the excitement that surrounds the 500+ hp Z-06's now. My opinion...I don't think the public ever got away from wanting performance cars, I think performance cars left the public. Unfortunately for the C3's, they were the cars sitting on the show room floor during Detroit's lowest hours.

Pot, disco, war protestor, and knuckleheads in VW buses had nothing to do with it.

Randy

[Dave F.]

Re: C3's undervalued?

Very interesting thread. I like reading all the different stories of what you guys were doing and seeing. I was too young for any of it.

I always liked the looks of the C3s when I was growing up, and still do, but even with no emotional stake in any of those earlier eras, I still prefer the C1s and C2s.

We may be going through a similar 50's-60's time right now. Rich Ceppos in Autoweek had a fun little article on this just recently:
http://tinyurl.com/nk5gm

-Dave