C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

[Alan Drake]

Trying to establish if my Upper Distributor Shield could be real!
First purchased Mar 64FI in Aug 67 with

[William C.]

What is the issue? *NM*

[Alan Drake]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

Boy did that posting get cut.

Have a Mar 64 FI car purchased in Aug 67. Took all shielding off that fall and stored, now getting ready to put back.
The upper shield is 3864671, stated to be for a 65.

The change was from ECR 62499 dated 2-19-64. It would seems possible that the upper shield (671) could have end up on the car was if the ECR hit the floor by 3-27-64 or if the engineering department made a few prototypes to try out first and then left them on the manufacturing floor for use. Besides it being a (671) it does have the two plastic rivets also.

Did engineering make up protoypes?? Did these remain on floor to be used??

How can I establish that the (671) is correct for my car?? documents?

An item to consider;
ECR 54384 dated 3-20-63 called for 2 plastic rivets and opening the throttle thus changing the pn to 3848306. The AIM dated 5-15-63 calls for the 38848306 at that time (around serial # 15,000), however it was not seem on a consitant basis till serial 20,400 in 1963. Some say the (306) was used starting in 64.
This ECR took about 2 months to get listed in the AIM as a usable part - naturally the factory used all the (306) that were around (some got taped).

[William C.]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

You have me confused on the '64 as you state the change to 2 plastic rivets was in spring '63. This is not consistant with any original cars I have seen, metal rivits (2) were the norm in '64 with plastic showing up in '65. What was the date on the ecr from three metal rivets to two metal rivets, and then from two metal to two plasitc?

[William C.]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

With regard to engineering, that was done at the Warren Mich tech center with plenty of cars available for tryout. Highly unlikley that a "prototype" at mid-model year would ever have been seen at St Louis, let alone installed and left on a production car.

[Alan Drake]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

The following info is from Adams Book & Amgwert Restorer Article

Design PN supported by changes
1 3819729 AIM microfilm

2 3833333 AIM micro, product parts list rear slots FI/CARB

mixed use till #8500

3 3848306 AIM 5-15-63 change over 2 plastic rivets,

ECR54384 3-20-63 larger throttle opening

Mixed use till 20363 plastic/metal mixed to 65

AIM 6-3-63 with notes NPC 324 &326

4 3864671 ERC62499 2-19-64 small cut in ft of cover

5 3882700 depression for air cleaner

63/64 TIM/JG, 3edition, says for a 1964 No plastic rivets – No cut in front cover.
However we are told by Adams & Amgwert that metal/plastic rivets have been seen in 1964 but mixed in use.

The 64 AIM that I have has a date of 6-3-63 for U69 radio which calls out the top cover part, 3848306. Perhaps a 65 AIM has a closer date – some where in early 64??? Have found pages in the AIM with dates of 7/14/65 and ref to 65 items in my 1964 AIM (no argument here from NCRS, it is an error!)

I have the 671 cover and believe it is original, but must get some facts to prove it to a judge. If the engineering dept made prototypes of the671 and left them on the floor then that’s a possibility. However you think NOT.

Or if we look at ECR 54384 dated 3-20-63 and called out in the AIM 5-15-63 for a change over date for the 2 plastic rivets, a time span of 2 months; then the ERC62499 dated 2-19-64 could have a change over date of 4-10-64 for the 3864671, close to my 3-27-64 build date, but . . . .

Any ideas.
Thanks

[William C.]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

I guess my point is that contrary to all this paperwork, the change to 2 plastic rivets on 5/63 simply did not happen, as the majority of documented '64 cars have been shown to have the metal rivets. The open question is when did the changeover actually occur? Keep in mind that an AIM change did not necessarily correspond to the actual change in the plant. John H. I believe did an explanation of that a couple of years ago. If I were you, I would be looking for unmolested '64 cars that support your theory rather than chasing Nolands book. I would ask the '64 judging team leader what has been seen on '64 Bowtie cars and if any of them support what is seen on your car. Do you have an ownership line from '64-67 that can establish without question it was never changed? I think you are assuming nearly 20 year old reviews of engineering documents and the AIM validate what actually happened in the plant, and unfortunately there are additional pieces of paperwork and other factors that actually controlled the parts list for the build. The AIM although helpful in research was not the controlling document.

[Alan Drake]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

Thanks Bill,
Off to see the old owner who purchased the car in summer of 65 from Best Chevrolet (still exists). He changed only the right rear wheel cylinder before selling to me in Aug 67.

Untill last night (6/30) I belived he purchased new used in summer of 64 with low dealer driven miles, but I learned again.

At this point I do not know how to find the first owner.

Thanks for your comments
Alan

[Michael H.]

Re: C2 Production Engineer & ECR prototypes

Bill,

I agree. I seriously doubt the plastic rivets showed up on the line until the 65 model year, or possibly very late 64.

At times, the GM paperwork is deadly accurate. Other times, it's hopelessly incorrect.