Re: CE Engine Blocks
Any chance of getting a copy of that announcement?
Any chance of getting a copy of that announcement?
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Some of the information you need is at this link.
Many of the CE big blocks in a CE survey I have run have been the 3999289 block.
If you look this casting number up, it points to a 454, from 1971 to 1974(?) if memory is right. However, for warranty replacement of 427s, they didn't stick a 454 in for you, they created a 427 using the 3999289 454 block.
Some of these have been 4 bolt mains, as reported by other source. However, I do not know if the 4 bolt main versions have had the oil cooler connections that normally indicate a 4 bolt main block.
CE EnginesComment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Michael -
Yes, I have it in the files at home somewhere; researched it for the Camaro guys a couple of years ago.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Yup, that link is to our CRG (Camaro Research Group) website, and is the quote I posted from the Chevrolet Service News as part of my research on the issue.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
I'd like to get a scan of that if you happen to run across it. Thanks John.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Michael,
There is no "line of thinking" in my post. You seem to have misread and misunderstood the answer I gave to the first poster. First of all, I made no mention of a "CE" block being acceptable in NCRS judging....and secondly, the original factory installed engine was just that " the original factory installed engine" The "CE" engine, if documented, would be the original "CE" block installed by the dealer in that car. AS I said in my first post, "it's just not the factory installed engine." ....and just like you would like to be able to prove the original factory installed engine is in fact the original factory installed engine, you might also want to be able to prove you have the original "CE" block installed in your car under warranty to show that it's part of your car's history......for no other purpose....and certainly NOT for NCRS or Bloomington purposes....although it would still be nice to see the car displayed at any event.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Rick,
In my post, I was basically/incorrectly refering to the original question from Bill Schroeded, which had to do with judging points. I probably should have made that clear in my post. As far as a documented replacement CE block, I agree 100% with you, that it is important and meaningful to the car and owner. I didn't mean to imply that it was no different than a totally incorrect block.
My feelings do remain the same for judging though. Just my opinion, but, I don't think a documented CE dealer replacement block with incorrect casting numbers, should be any different than a home installed totally incorrect block.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Michael,
I completely agree with you......Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
The "CE" engine, if documented, would be the original "CE" block installed by the dealer in that car. AS I said in my first post, "it's just not the factory installed engine."
In the times I was around any engines replaced under warranty, the dealer did the work, but only after a Chevrolet Zone Manager came out to approve the work order in person.
So it was Chevrolet replacing the engine, not the dealer.
This was different than replacing an alternator or water pump or such. The dealer did it, then turned the old one in for warranty credit.
Since Bill Stephenson had his 427 replaced about 4 days after delivery, it would be interesting to hear if his was approved first or what happened.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
Mike,
It usually didn't work that way. Most engines/partial engines were replaced under warranty with no prior zone approval or authorization. It was not required by Chevrolet. If, however, there was a dispute between the owner and the dealer (service manager) as far as warranty or no warranty, the job would be set aside until the zone rep could come out and make a decision.
The rep's generally weren't at the dealers more than once a week, sometimes only a few times a month. A customers car couldn't be held for that long while waiting for the rep.
The items that typically required prior zone authorization were complete assemblies. That would include carburetors, alternators and complete engines etc.
Zone rep's almost never approved warranty claims that had complete assy's charged to a new car. If an alternator failed, it was to be overhauled in the service dept. The entire claim would be rejected if a complete assy was installed.
Also of interest was the fact that almost no warranty parts were sent back to GM for credit. Defective parts that were replaced had to be held/taged by the dealer so the rep could inspect once a month. The reason he did so was to try to insure that the replaced part was actually a part from the car listed on the warranty claim form. It was common practice for mechanics to "phony a warranty job", then turn in parts from some other non warranty job to get paid for something he didn't do. Every part from a warranty job had to be turned in, including old gaskets etc. (gaskets often had ID notches or some other means of making sure they fit the time frame of the car build date) After inspection, almost everything was scraped. Some of the rep's would intentionally destroy warranty blocks. The favorite method was to hit the front main cap rearward with a big 15* hammer. It usually took out the cap with the bolts and part of the block still securely attached. It would NEVER be an engine again.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
That is interesting to hear. When I lost an engine in '78, they told me I had to wait for the Zone Rep. I asked if it was some problem. They answered it was the way Chevrolet always handled it. The service manager said it had been that way as long as he had been there, and he had been there about 8 years.
A friend lost the engine in his new '76 in May, 1976 at 1100 miles. He had to wait for the Zone Rep.
Back for the first service on my dad's '73 Impala, there was a guy in complaining he was being delayed, having to wait for the Zone Rep on his Impala wagon.
The first two were new shortblocks, I don't know how the third came out.
The joke in high school were the "factory-supported" racers, where Chrysler was paying for engines, transmissions, and rear ends. And several had switched to Mopar because they claimed the warranty was a hassle with Chevy.
And there were others I knew of that had the same issue with the Zone rep coming out before engines or transmissions were fixed.
Now maybe the St. Louis Zone was different, but that was what I ran across.Comment
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Re: CE Engine Blocks
------You know, Mike, I dont think Ill be much help. I suspect I was like about 90% of the Corvette buyers out there. I had my brand new Corvette towed to the local dealer in Athens,OH. and they determined the problem. At that point I came back in and they offered me two alternate ways to attack the problem. I chose a new short-block over the rebuild of the original (obviously a mistake in hind-sight). I came back when the work was done and since I didnt even know there were numbers on a pad I never gave them or any paperwork a thought. All I wanted to do was get back on the road and give those F/70s a workout. I dont remember a zone-rep getting involved although that may have happened without my knowledge and I simply couldnt have cared less what happened to the old short-block. I was barely 22 years old and had pedestrians to scare the wits out of..........Bill S
------That car got sold to a wholesaler in Ft Lauderdale FL. later that year and shipped to Dallas. I have always wondered what happened to it. Riverside Gold/black vinyl, 435hp coupe with a factory L88 hood and motion style stripes in black on it. Also had a whole bunch of horsepower stuff done to it.Comment
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