Judging points for lack of trim tag

[Thomas N.]

Hi:
I received the Restorer magazine, and there was a little blurb on the trim tag database book. I've seen many project cars for sale on ebay, Carlisle, etc. and have seen some with State Issued Vin numbers (which is covered in the judging book), and some lack trim tags. My question is can you get a car judged without a trim tag? Is it assumed that a car that has the trim tag removed will never be able to be judged per NCRS? I can understand the issue with a forged or repro tag, but what if the car a person bought had the trim tag removed? Is the car rendered useless in the eyes of the NCRS? A 63 I restored many years ago, the trim tag was all but hanging due to people using the crossmember as a foot rest.

[Brian M.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

I know that a car with a repro tag can only second flight.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

A repro tag or no tag would turn out about the same. I think it would not be worth the effort to have it judged. No way to tell what color the body or interior should be.

[Brian M.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

I'd still have it judged. It could be very correct car sans the trim tag.

[John L.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

If you plan to go the NCRS route and the car you are looking at does not have the trim tag --- walk away no matter how nice the car is. It is sad however true as you will never be able to get a Top Flight. Personally, I dont get it as anyone with mechanical ability and knowledge can forge a big block and get it Top Flighted but god forbid you have a repro trim tag.

[Gary S.]

Respectfully disagree!

"If you plan to go the NCRS route and the car you are looking at does not have the trim tag --- walk away no matter how nice the car is. It is sad however true as you will never be able to get a Top Flight."

Lack of a trim tag is nothing more than that - no trim tag to verify interior and colors. There are a lot of VERY nice Corvettes out there that are beautiful to look at and drive but will not garner a Top Flight. So what? If the desire is to drive the car and maybe even have it flight judged, and the price is commensurate with the condition (including lack of a trim tag)and you like it, then go for it. I was an NCRS member for nine years with a 66 that wouldn't even get a Second Flight but I went to judging meets, drove my car and loved every mile of it.

I believe that it is a sad statement that a Corvette is not worthy if it won't get a Top Flight. I would love to do a survey of NCRS members (including the leadership!) and see how many own cars that aren't Flight candidates for one reason or another.

Just another opinion.

Gary

[Jay G.]

Re: Respectfully disagree!

Could't agree more. What dictates or states a Non Top Flight car isn't worthy. Can't tell you the no. of times I've had people compliment me cause I do drive my 67. Such as Thanks for bringin it out. You just don't see em on the road any more, etc. They love to stop and tell war stories of the one that got away. So whats better than that. Drive em its just a car.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

AS an owner or a judge if it had no trim tag I would take it to the local cruse in where no one would know or care if it had a trim tag.

JMHO

Lyle

[Roy S.]

Re: Respectfully disagree!

Thank You Gary, well stated.

[John M.]

Re: Respectfully disagree!

Me too Gary. I had a nice 66 that Top flighted and now have a beautiful 67 that won't because I changed the color and the engine. I bought it as a bucket of bolts and it looks like new in every way except the trim tag doesn't match up. So what, it's still beautiful and I still respect all of the ideals of NCRS and anybody who wants to do it their way.

[Roger S.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

would not a build sheet or the window sticker be acceptable to determine the original color and trim? Why only the trim tag?

Roger

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging points for lack of trim tag

First, the book answer is because that is what is in the judging manual. I would guess that the real world answer is that build sheets and window stickers can be reproed? A second guess would be that paperwork can be easily lost or destroyed and not so for trim tags? Al Grenning's seminars show that the trim tag can easily be proven to be real or fake. If you get a chance to go to one of his seminars, it is quite amazing what he has in his library and his "internal data base". Amazing guy.

Gary

[Mark #28455]

Funny how you can paint a 57 any color and nobody

Funny how many "pre trim tag" cars were appartently red and it doesn't matter. Better yet, why can I get my BB Corvette judged with a date code correct Impala block and still get a top flight (only losing a few points for the VIN and assembly stampings). I think if life were truly "fair" then any correct Corvette color paint would be judged for what it is. There would be a seperate section for the trim tag worth about 35 points like an engine stamp.

Just my 2 cents.
Mark

[Philip C.]

WHAT

I posted about this when the spring restorer came out with the 65 FI on the cover, That car doesnt have orig vin or trim, it top flighted. Thats a real FI car, I got out bid on it in 97 So WHAT the deal now.Could the powers tell us again THANKS Also Please guys get off this drive em, they are only cars etc deal, we have heard it a billion times, some guys like to collect and restore them, Show them and trailer and truck them we dont tell you guys to do that takes a lot of money just to buy one let only restore one. Iam one of the lucky ones that has more then one. I started a long time ago. I restore my own cars as much as I can. I dont like paying big money for body work and paint but if you want the best it cost alot. Phil 8063

[Mark #28455]

supposedly to prevent "bogus" Corvettes

That's the story I've heard - the VIN tag cannot be altered and the trim tag must be original. On the surface, that seems OK, but then again, a state issued VIN tag gets full credit. HUH? But God help you if you don't have an original TRIM TAG! There is no consistency at all to this logic except that it is a making of the "trim tag police" who have self-appointed themselves to a position of incredible importance over a part that is essentially irrelevant to the car. Without their BLESSING you CANNOT get a top flight! Lets examine this further! Unless a car is totally unrestored and original, it is NOT as it left the assembly line!

We frequently buy correct date coded starters and alternators and that's OK.

Even restamped engine pads are OK (notice the "Last" 67 Corvette that everyone KNOWS is a restamp).

Pre trim tag cars get full credit for ANY color paint.

You can even swap in ANY correct date code and casting number block even if it's from an Impala or truck and leave the original stamped numbers ON and still get a Top Flight (only losing 70 points for the stampings).

BUT, if your ORIGINAL trim tag is not there, you're done as far as Top Flight is concerned! Since when has the trim tag become the all-important holy grail to Top Flight? Using the "restoration" logic that prevails for EVERYTHING ELSE in the NCRS (like aftermarket interiors, etc.) you SHOULD be able to use ANY original trim tag from ANY same year Corvette and only lose points on one axis for the DATE! Or if you use a restamped trim tag, you should ONLY lose points as defined by the deviation from original.

Come on guys and gals, if we truly judged the ENTIRE car with the amount of scrutiny given to the trim tag, we would never finish one car let alone 30 at a regional meet! In the medical and legal world, this is a perfect example of the "mental masturbation" that is used by a select few to disproportionately emphasize their pet projects and make it impossible for the rest to get anything done!

Maybe someday logic will prevail but I wouldn't hold my breath as we still haven't implemented an online "Driveline" either!

I apologize in advance to any that may be offended by this posting.
Mark